which God do i follow? - Page 2

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The only reason people do not chose any religion is because they are afraid to be responsible for their actions. Without God there is no need for responsibility because no action matters. But God does exist so there is a need for responsibility and if you chose not to accept that then that is up to you.

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I didn't say that patape should be an atheist, i said they should chose any religon that he wants.

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The only reason people do not chose any religion is because they are afraid to be responsible for their actions. Without God there is no need for responsibility because no action matters. But God does exist so there is a need for responsibility and if you chose not to accept that then that is up to you.

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No. Responsibility for your actions, as well as the determination of them being right or wrong is done all on our own, with or without any followings of religion.

That is a rather absurd assesment in my opinion, the only God anyone alive can prove they know, follow, and worship is the god they imagined after being told about one, or thought of in terms of where everything comes from, a creator.

Which in turn has nothing to do with our self imposed rules, unless stories about ten commandments and the like are true, which is highly doubtful.

And as long as a person lives in a society and has a brain in their head, then they know they will be held accountable by others, regardless of anyone's religious beliefs, especially by the governmentally imposed laws.

Basic social behavior, also known as the law of the jungle, existed well before governments or religions.

The golden rule most likely came about not because some hippie wanted everyone to play nice, but because people don't want someone killing them, so they too agree to be "civil" as well in exchange for their own lives and peace of mind.

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And as long as a person lives in a society and has a brain in their head, then they know they will be held accountable by others

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This statement is inaccurate; because when people decide they want something they simply change the laws so that accountability is negligible. The criminal system is only based on moral relativity; it changes whenever people decide that they want to get away with breaking the law.

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Without God there is no need for responsibility because no action matters.

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why?? what do u mean ... no action matters?

It is becoz we do not understand the "what is" (understand this please...its a very abstract term) that we give lovely names such as ideals, beliefs, GODS.

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Responsibility for your actions, as well as the determination of them being right or wrong is done all on our own, with or without any followings of religion.

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well said ethereal...

let's all clear our minds for a moment ...and answer a little question of mine...in order to hav a clear idea of what we are pursuing.

If u were an orphan, and growin up slowly on your own...how would you pick your religion?


let's not consider your "own"( customised) religion for the moment.

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This statement is inaccurate; because when people decide they want something they simply change the laws so that accountability is negligible.

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And be held accountable to whatever degree of accountability is determined to be the moral or legal standard.

Laws and even dogmas can and do change, but not just because one person decides its time for it to change, thats just silly, and as for a society doing so, that's called democracy.

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The criminal system is only based on moral relativity; it changes whenever people decide that they want to get away with breaking the law.

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I haven't seen any laws or dogmas be changed to allow the basic "crimes", such as murder. And I'm not sure what crimes have been made legal by public demand as you suggest. Yet I do know of countless people who break "minor" laws daily and they are still illegal.

And as for...

"And as long as a person lives in a society and has a brain in their head, then they know they will be held accountable by others"

Its entirely accurate in the context I stated it, held accountable by others, not laws, no governments or religious rules needed. If you are around even one other person and do anything of offense, you will be held accountable, this doesn't necessarily mean jail or hell either, it depends on the offense and the social systems, which as I'm trying to iterate, does not need law or religion to exist or even to rival or surpass the apparent perfection of morality that you seem to attribute to religion, which is laughable.

Laws like religious dogmas can all sound great on paper.

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Without God there is no need for responsibility because no action matters.

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This statement is innaccurate, becasue i'm pretty sure that the terrorist atacks on 9/11 were religously motivated and carried out by very religous people who beleived in GOD.
Also, that woman in the midwest who drowned her childeren in the bathtub did so because she thought they were SATAN. she beleived in god too, but by your logic, she would have had to have been an atheist.

In my opinion, god does as much harm as good, because if someone is religous, and they want to kill, maim, etc.. they'll just use god as an excuse. On the other hand, many people have used releigon do do great things. for example, most of the famous pieces of art were religously inspired, and of course there's allways mother teresa.

Those two incidents do not make my statement inaccurate. The terrorists did what they did because they expect their god to reward them. As for the lady she would probably consider herself somewhat of a martyr. In both cases the people involved were acting out of responsibility to their respective gods.

And as a matter of clarification, what I meant be 'no action matters' is that one who denies God's existence would believe that everything is a reaction, chemicals and atoms randomly joining to produce things. If one believes that they are made up or random particles that will go back to nothingness after death then nothing has any meaning. This is just a nihilistic philosophy.

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I haven't seen any laws or dogmas be changed to allow the basic "crimes", such as murder. And I'm not sure what crimes have been made legal by public demand as you suggest. Yet I do know of countless people who break "minor" laws daily and they are still illegal.

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In many parts of the world there is a growing sympathy for special interest groups who demand rights in the name of equality. Most people see this as a fair idea, however most people are ignorant of the fact that a society must be discriminating and judgemental. The acceptance of this idea of tolerance to activities once outlawed (i.e. same-sex marriage and the legalization of pot) will only lead to further changes in the criminal code. Total equality means that there would be no jails because we wouldn't be intolerant of criminals (who incidentally wouldn't be called criminals anymore.)

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The acceptance of this idea of tolerance to activities once outlawed (i.e. same-sex marriage and the legalization of pot) will only lead to further changes in the criminal code.

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Did you ever stop to think about the FACT that these activites you cited were once perfectly legal BEFORE being criminalized?

You are using overgeneralized logic, by your logic everything then should be criminalized, because to criminalize or decriminilize leads to just more of either, apparently without end.

Balance young padawan.

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The terrorists did what they did because they expect their god to reward them.

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You assume too much, along with believing to much of what you hear without question.

Even based on the official story to which you are referring, killing civilians is not ok or rewarded in the muslim cultures and religions from what I've heard.

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one who denies God's existence would believe that everything is a reaction

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Another assumtive overgeneralization. Not everyone that questions the existance or true form and nature of God is Nihilistic.

But I will say that anyone who says they know no God exists is most likely lying or deluded, unless they are the first ever able to prove it that is. Same goes for claiming a God's existance, especially a specified God as found in most religions.

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Without God there is no need for responsibility because no action matters.

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So yes, this is innacurate. Firstly its an opinion, secondly its obviously based on your Nihilistic point, and lastly, as I'll try to say again, regardless of God, actions have consequences and therefore matter, also irregardless of how much, or in what way, it matters to any one person or group.

Even if it only matters in referrence to survival, individually or as a whole.

Let me ask you, do you feel life is worthless without a God, you sure do put the notion on others.

If so, then you have grown dependant (like an addict) to your God.

Only things that jeopardize the structure of society should be criminalized. Drugs have a negative effect on people. People under the influences of drugs are prone to behave in a manner hazardous to their health or someone else's. Individuals should not have the right to cause, by will or negligence, others to be injured or killed.

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Even based on the official story to which you are referring, killing civilians is not ok or rewarded in the Muslim cultures and religions from what I've heard.

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That may very well be true however in the case of a holy war the would be no civilians just one religion versus another therefore whether we consider them to be civilians or not doesn't make them any less enemies of the religion (unless the persons killed were of that religion)

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Not everyone that questions the existence or true form and nature of God is Nihilistic.

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Obviously this is not the case as I am no nihilist however I regularly challenge my perceptions of who or what God is and how He works.

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So yes, this is inaccurate. Firstly its an opinion, secondly its obviously based on your Nihilistic point, and lastly, as I'll try to say again, regardless of God, actions have consequences and therefore matter, also irregardless of how much, or in what way, it matters to any one person or group.

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'If a person doesn't think there is a god to be accountable to then what's the point of modifying your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges?' - Jeffrey Dahmer

This is a quote from a man who truly believed that there was no God. His belief was so strong that he had no problem murdering people and cannibalising them. This man clearly demonstrates what it looks like to truly believe that God doesn't exist. No God means no divine judgement. There is no morality without God except to do what ever feels good for you and by that standard there is nothing stopping us from killing our neighbours and taking their processions.

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Drugs have a negative effect on people

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Drugs have many affects on people, many possitive, which is why one of the largest industries is made of drug companies. Not even to mention the size of illegal drug business.

Your are expressing one sided overgeneralizations. There is good and bad in all things.

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Individuals should not have the right to cause, by will or negligence, others to be injured or killed.

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Do you know how many injuries and deaths are caused by recreational and professional sports and activities? How about driving, lots of death and destruction there, should we ban that too?

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in the case of a holy war the would be no civilians just one religion versus another therefore whether we consider them to be civilians or not doesn't make them any less enemies of the religion

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Unless the holy books specifically adress that, which they do, specifically in terms of women and children.

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This man clearly demonstrates what it looks like to truly believe that God doesn't exist.

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No, this is an example of a person with no concience. And concience does not need religion to exist.

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There is no morality without God except to do what ever feels good for you and by that standard there is nothing stopping us from killing our neighbours and taking their processions.

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You don't listen very well, except to serial killers it would seem.

Morality is not a religious invention. Its a standard derived from an inner sense of right and wrong (concience).

If God told us what was right and wrong, thats how he did it, not by stone tablets, but through our inherent and instinctual concience.

The writings of laws and religion come from man's expression of concience and common sense. Senseless killing and the acceptance of it is detremental to our survival.

We are social creatures, killing (especially in the ways of Dahmer) is anti-social and the exception to the norm.

And please don't try to explain why "Dahmers" of the world do what they do, or why they don't have a concience. His parents told of how he viciously killed animals as a kid too, showing unusual lacks of emotion, and studies and teachings have struggled to understand, but do not know for certain any answers.

And to attempt to associate non religious beliefs with such behavior would be utter nonesense, there are far more deaths caused by the faithful, many of which specifically believe they are fullfilling God's will, or even directly commanded by God to kill.

Okay here it is if it feels right it is right its that simple as most things in life are we just overcomplicate things because we just have to understand. But we cant.

If YOU ARE RAISED TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING IN A SPECIFIC WAY THAT'S THE WAY IT IS..

Nurture vs. nature

Go for what feels right in your heart and sits right within your mind but exclude anything you know is pre-programmed fear or comfort.

All of you make excellent points and all of you are correct only because that's your 'life situation'

why follow mainstream religions. religions are just natural socially constructed beliefs. They are mechanisms to answer questions in life that will never be resolved. Don't let your brain be washed into the false beliefs of millions of others.

Well - let me just add - Don't follow the god of Mammon. It doesn't feel good when your stomach hurts from eating to much.

Those who have the most are not the most righteous.

coming form a christian background makes it quite hard to be objective about the existence of god, due to the fact that i have always been told he exists. Although as ive grown up, it seems to me more and more that a lot of religion is human made laws with an incentive to heed them. it seems to follow the idea of grand moff tarkin in star wars "rule through the fear of force, rather than through force itself". people will follow any rule if it seems more likely to save them from pain or death. and what force is more frightening to an uneducated medieval peasent than the idea of divine wrath.