Rant

If anyone cares to know what i think, ill tell ya what religion really is, it was designed for the weak minded. I mean if u look at it from afar i find it obvious to see that all it is is a collection of people gathering together for security. security in life and the thought of death, it is comfort. I have a tendency to dislike many religions because if you pick apart the ideas within their religious books such as the bible, it is obvious to point out that the "moral issues" being taught as (right and wrong) are totaly based around keeping people in the church, or gathering or whatever. I mean i cant deny that there are good things to be learned in the bible, for there are, i look at myself to be a moral person though i feel i need not God, no supreme being to guide me, to protect me, to take me when im gone, to accept me, to give me meaning for this ocean of chaos that we live in. I believe in complete open mindedness. If you are blinded by strict religious rules "sins" etc.. u may never find in life, that which life is worth living for. If you view your life on earth to be just a passing, a bridge into heaven or whatever than i think u could easily miss perhaps the most key elements in our lives.

Looking at bible proclaimed "morally correct, things to do" i find that issues such as; no premarital sex, could be viewed many ways, of course its mostly circumstantial, but i see it as this - the church is containing your family within the church, and by only permitting you to wed others of your same religion your children will have far more likly a chance to becoming a part of your religion than if one parent is christian for example and the other doesnt belong to a religious group. for those of you that believe "swearing" or cussing is a sin, than you really need to rethink the matter. Let me get this strait, you are tremendously offended at the fluctuations in air pressure caused by my mouth and breath, Sure and insult is and insult and im not saying that its ok to hurt people with insults ( for that is the manner in which u are using the words, for instance u can hurt somone with words just by the manner in which u say it, even if u dont "swear" at all) but to those or you who believe that just the word is bad ... i dont know what to tell you aside from ... what are you thinking? say if i were to be talking about something such as ...... i had a bunch of "shit" to do last night, or i dont know what the "fuck" he was thinking when he walked into the street. this is not harmful to anyone. ooooooo big damn deal i said "fuck" ... u gotta realize that its the context in which swear words are used that makes them bad.. just saying fuck fuck fuck fuck, has no bearing at all and should not be taken offensively .

you want to knwo what i think about life.. here goes
first of all i want to clear somting up, yes i do believe in the "big bang theory" in which the universe over EXTENCIVE amounts of time expands until it begins to once again contract into itself into a single point in which all law is broken and everything involving "the way things work" is crunched down with it, thus it is pointless to attempt to think about what happened before the big bang because it has no bearing whatsoever in the reality we are present with,. this is because everthing before it was completely abolished and what may have been the laws of science before could be completely differnt that those of today. ok now that i can start form somewhere ill give u all my opinion on how everything is workn. (no god involved). Ok first the big band, matter is blasted outword with intence force and heat. there is massive circumstantial evidence that points to the posibilty of "big bang"s actual existence. (read some of steven hawking's stuff, it will of blow your mind, if u can even comprehend what he is telling you.) as matter began to cool it began to clup together, in massive partical clouds, and in itsself creating small amounts of gravity, thus collecting more and mroe particals and gathering them together, over a long ass period of time planets are created, planets of all kinds. and stars. planets, moving constantly, orbit around larger fields of gravity creating solar systems and galaxies. as matter is condensed through gravity over a LONG LONG LONG period of time brought about single celled organisms, and omg i get this all the time ( how does somtning so brilliant as us come from dust? and if you through a broken clock out the window what are the chances of it falling back together on contact?) its pretty simple acutally, i really doubt that anyone who askes questions like these realizes the magnitude of time , time in which events occure, it was estimated that the earth has been around for 4-6 BILLION years, thats a hell of a long time, and as time goes by so goes natural selection, via survival of the fittest, of the best genetics. i also get a lot of ( how can we, the " greatest , and most intelligent creatures known to ourselves" be conceived from animals which evolved from single celled organizms back at the very begining.) and i can also use the "over a long ass period of time" to back my argument. i mean look at it this way, we, humans, have been here for what maybe 2000 give or take years and we have witnessed tiny bits and pieces of evidence that lead us to the idea of evolution, such as our ,, what was it.. 98% to identical genes from apes. and looking at our body sturctures its so obvious. though almost noone will believe it because they cant witness it themselves, hence "a long ass period of time". give that clock a couple billion tosses of that roof repeated over billions of years and let me tell you , that damned clock is gonna come back together at least once dispite the near impossible chance. would it happen in your life time?. in mine? of course not! but you've got to look at it from a different perspective, based of the fundamentals of chance. I mean all the pieces of that clock are there, as peices on the ground they dont seem to do much of anything, (hello! matter) but as that clock begins to come back together it makes somthing quite magical.. a clock! it ticks , it keeps time... its all the basic same principles of evolution, all coming back to probability over a period of time.

I do consider us to be special, though not as we are Gods most wondrous creation, or that we have this divine purpose, but were given the chance for the most intense experience imaginable, (life) through chance and probability. Therefore it is worth living , i feel that is where i find the drive to live on, to continue, to make the best of everything though it does seem hard somtimes to realize it. I view the existence of life on earth to be quite amazing in that we, all of us, humans and animals, given the chance for existance. and lucky us, we can attempt to perceive whats around us. and comprehend things unlike most animals. does that make us better than them? NO! does that give us the right to think we are special and divine compared to them, NO! and that we, conveniently after we die, get to go to this wonderful place while animals who die just die and their energy is transformed into other things.

this kinda brings me into the whole after life thing, (sorry im really going all over the place). we are like i said, just part of the experience given by chance, and therefore die in the same manner as other creatures that live. by this i mean we live we die, we rot. i know the feeling of worthlessness is strong in that comment but truly i believe people should accept it. i believe that if people would realize that we ARENT the greatest things to ever exist the world would be a better place, and people wouldnt just kill themselves if they saw what i believe i see in life, that is that the chance for life is so rare and precious that its worth liveing to the fullest. (when that clock comes together again) . I know the pieces fit!.. and i know they will come back together again. Now just go with me here on this one... suppose we dont have a purpose and taht it really doesnt matter if u live or die or are a good person or not. Its quite a depressive outlook on life woulnt u agree? of course it is, wouldnt it be nice to give purpose to our lives? woulndnt it be... comforting? of course it would, hence RELIGION, the belief that there is some purpose to our lives, that there is somone else there, that we arnt alone in this "ocean of chaos" and that we are loved by something other than ourselves. (sound comforting to me). Well i think its obvious enough to say that religion is that in full. look back at indian tribes, believing in gods to explain that which they could not explain. (religion does that today) for we cannot and most def. will not ever know the purpose of our existance and thus must have "God" who is the answer to everything we cannot understand. Sure like many other ideas, you can not prove him to be non-existent though its just as random as any other religion or wild ideas created in effort to explain what we cannot perceive at a given time... religion will prob stay around forever because it is comforting and it provides "hope" for those who cannot find it on their own. its sad but true. those who cannot find what i have found in life... (and by all means go ahead believe what ever u want,ur entitled to your own beliefs, your own ideas) for all we know we could all just be somewhere mixed in the chaos of an atom which constructs somthing larger and on and on like looking into a mirror with another mirrow behind it.. the vision you see repeats over and over and over again until it bends out of sight. if you think that idea is obsurd or just too random, why dont you consider your own ideas, an all powerful being, all knowing , etc.. how is that any less random.. the very idea of a god defies all science that we know today, such as the laws of physics... if god can create anything such as a rock,,, could he create a rock that he couldnt lift?! it creates a paradox between the facts that if he (why is it a him anyway, what is so special about a male? doesnt it make sence that it would be a male, considering males were viewed at teh time of the origin of the bible to be far superior, to the more inferior woman at that time. this is proof to me that HE is infact an invented creation in our minds) were to create a rock that he couldnt lift, he woulnd be all powerful now would he? considering he couldnt life it. im just pointing out the physics part of it .. iv heard some say well why would anyone wonder a question such as that/? for it doenst make any sence and there is no reason for that to be true. also the mere fact that there are more than one religion in the world is living proof that God doesnt exist. this is because for one, those who believe in other religions than lets say christianity believe in their god just as much if not more than those who are christians. and the fact that these exist begs the question.. what makes u think your god is the "real": god and that all the others are just dumb and not practical. we always come back to the fact that one cannot prove that God doesnt exist,, you just have to be open minded enough to realize that what you believe is just a perception, your perception, of what is real and what will happen after death. hope your right? is that it? seems a like quite the gamble .. to me anyway.. to dedicate your life to a single idea such as God, and to put sooo much "faith" in that idea, only based on a "hope their right" basis. My advice to you would be to really think about what you believe, sure its easyr to just believe in God and not think about it at all, hence the "weak minded people i was talking about" .. i believe that perhaps for some religion is the right thing, but for most of us, who are strong and have the potential to believe in anything we want, shouldnt need somthing so controlling, so one sided, so closed minded as religion.

(this is just a blink of the stuff i like to think about, and it is my opinion of course, i dont mean to change anyones life or anything, just somthing to think about.. and i hope that if you're reading this and you are in fact religions that you may take a quick ,, only brief moment to really think about what you are dedicating your life to.. this rant was not intended to offend anyone, i am entitled to my own opinion, as are we all. have fun and im excited to hear what any of you might have to reply to my shpeal- ) ty for your time . have a nice day yours truly - Fred

Freedom's are always taken for granted....


When someone has their freedom, they don't know the history of it.

Example is obvious..if we did not have religion..and we had no moral ethics...where would we be??

The innate 'essence' of men is SELF.
The world revolves of only what WE know...OURSELVES.

IF we did not have fear of our Creator, and have Him give us guidelines in which to follow..not sure the human race would have survived.

IN fact..if it were not for Christianity, where many laws reflect the freedom's Christ gave...the morals would be worse.
NOW imagine this life being worse.

Hon...as self motivated as you are in your thinking...and no one held you back, I dread to think how you would be permitted to treat others.

Anti~Religious do not even realise how their whole moral codes are set up with religion as its base.

THIS is true in every nation...BECAUSE the religions that are violent wont survive.

Open minds lose brains.

'Example is obvious..if we did not have religion..and we had no moral ethics...where would we be??... IF we did not have fear of our Creator, and have Him give us guidelines in which to follow..not sure the human race would have survived.'

The human race did fine before your religion was born dear, and would have done fine afterwards too.
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'IN fact..if it were not for Christianity, where many laws reflect the freedom's Christ gave...the morals would be worse... Anti~Religious do not even realise how their whole moral codes are set up with religion as its base.'

Define worse morals. Instead of making such general and unsubstantiated comments, it would be helpful to discussion to be more concise. The greatest majority of religions share the same basic moral codes. Murder, theft, rapes, etc. are frowned upon by every religion. And Atheists live by a moral code, defined by the needs for social interaction. These socially motivated mores are far older than any religion on the planet, inherent in the need for communal health and protection. Also, define 'Anti~Religious'.
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'THIS is true in every nation...BECAUSE the religions that are violent wont survive.'

Christianity has not exactly been innocent of violence, even today.
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'Open minds lose brains.'

And closed minds will not learn anything, nor grow past what they are told by other people. Closed-minded people are simply the sheep for those who hold power over them.

hey, theirishpagan, haha you took the words from my mouth lol. I think its great that other people arnt afraid to speak up against such things. what are your thoughts on the basis of religious groups and religion in general, i mean how and why do you think they came about, anything near mine? im very interested in hearing your opinion. -Fred

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Example is obvious..if we did not have religion..and we had no moral ethics...where would we be??

The innate 'essence' of men is SELF.
The world revolves of only what WE know...OURSELVES.

IF we did not have fear of our Creator, and have Him give us guidelines in which to follow..not sure the human race would have survived.

IN fact..if it were not for Christianity, where many laws reflect the freedom's Christ gave...the morals would be worse.
NOW imagine this life being worse.

Hon...as self motivated as you are in your thinking...and no one held you back, I dread to think how you would be permitted to treat others.

Anti~Religious do not even realise how their whole moral codes are set up with religion as its base.

THIS is true in every nation...BECAUSE the religions that are violent wont survive.

Open minds lose brains.

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numbering your statements if i can...

1. If there was no religion, and no rules then there would be no action, cuz people wouldn't know what the hell to do.. there would be no corruption and confusion of what's right or what's wrong because all action would be natural...

2. Yes the only person man knows is the self...and if you don't know the self, then you can't know anybody else... cuz people are just like YOU...and if you treat everybody like you would treat yourSELF then you would walk in harmony...The self, individuality is only what matters...because "your relationship with God is an individual thing" not a group effort! Know the self...don't get confused with yourself...Open your Mind!!!!!!

3. The creator is constantly creating us, so that we live in each moment....the creator is one with us...we are the creator and the ceator is us, because without this body and consciousness we couldn't percieve who or if the creator is!

4.won't even talk about christianity...Stop seperating yourself from yourself.....you cling to what you understand is one truth and are totally resentful to the unknown!....LOST!!!...and that's not me passing judgement...I'm telling you that you're in a grey area.....a member of the church of laodecia!!!

5.Religion is based on morals....Anti-relgion is based on personal morals....relgions do not own any morals of its own.. they adopt!!...Morals are a seperate factor that doesn't need acceptance of a group or membership for attainment!!... Morals just are...you use from them, they are used by you, they don't Use YOU!...yet you are needed to display what morals are!!!

6. I do agree with your last statement tho.....every violent religion won't survive...so basically all religions are gonna be extinct pretty soon, because all of them have defended something at some point and defending or oppressing usually involves violence doesn't it???......every single relgion is bent to fight if a holy war should arise.......so are you trying to say that only non religious persons fight?....obviously you're not that narrow minded to believe that....so rethink your position and watch again where you stand.

Take a chance and let go of what you know and accept the unknown....you only learn when you accept what you don't know and use from it!.......be sure when you speak, speak on what you have just understood...not what you've known for years, because previous knowledge though set in momentous stone, is subject to change through constant progression.....notice I didn't say rules or morals......I'm saying knowledge of a certain subject, action, etc.....when you speak on what you've just learned you can only say what you've understood with purity....at the same time being open to suggestion, and succumbing to a different point of view from another person.....OPEN YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!!

'i mean how and why do you think they came about, anything near mine? im very interested in hearing your opinion. –Fred'

Religion, in my views, came about by a need for ancient man to explain his world and himself, and to seek guidance and security from something greater than themselves, as a child would seek those things from a parent. The very first religions were nature based, and Shamanic in nature, as early man lived very closely with nature, and was still an integral part of the natural world.

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I have a tendency to dislike many religions

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I believe in complete open mindedness.

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Need i point out the contradiction? if you dislike religions, at all, you are not open minded. no one is open minded. we all have our biases, presupositions. Don't call religious people close minded. that is a bias. that makes you cease to be open minded, and thus close minded yourself.

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Looking at bible proclaimed "morally correct, things to do" i find that issues such as; no premarital sex, could be viewed many ways, of course its mostly circumstantial, but i see it as this - the church is containing your family within the church, and by only permitting you to wed others of your same religion your children will have far more likly a chance to becoming a part of your religion than if one parent is christian for example and the other doesnt belong to a religious group.

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What about the verses that tell Christians to go out from the church, start new churches? ah, how to explain this to you. you are coming at this from the point of view that God does not exist, Christianity is a waste of a life, Christians are universally stupid. Of course the church does everything it can to show more people Christ. Why wouldnt it? given the greatest news in the world, of course you would want to share it. it's not a conspiracy theory. it's common sense.

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for those of you that believe "swearing" or cussing is a sin, than you really need to rethink the matter. Let me get this strait, you are tremendously offended at the fluctuations in air pressure caused by my mouth and breath,

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a dislike for bad language is not particular to Christians. it is a social rule. people are always affected by words. yes, they are "fluctuations in air pressure caused by my mouth and breath" but they are language, our way of communicating. communicating something causes an emotional reaction. by using language generally considered "bad" you are bringing about a bad emotional reaction. that's all. if you said, to take your example, "fuck" all the time in reference to, say, paper,it would cease to matter to anyone. however, it's origins are in something generally considered offensive in civilized society, hence a dislike for it's use.

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as matter is condensed through gravity over a LONG LONG LONG period of time brought about single celled organisms

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i'm really sick of the evolution debate, so i'm not going to get into it here, but, thing is, i grow irritated with the constant use of time as a cure all. "well, it's probably unlikely that it's going to happen, but, give it enough time, and it will." you can explain away anything like that. it's a cop out, a theory that can be neither proved nor disproved.

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it was estimated that the earth has been around for 4-6 BILLION years

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there is also evidence to the contrary. in fact, such a date is partly drawn from the fact that it must have took that long to create something. circular logic.

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what was it.. 98% to identical genes from apes.

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that is in no way a debate against God. we were all made from the same stuff. of course we are genetically similar. i would also like to point out that using your time thing i could make that argument mute. "Well, over billions of years, although highly improbable, humans and apes both evolved similar to eachother." you can't use time to cure improbablites, and then use it to create them.

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Now just go with me here on this one... suppose we dont have a purpose and taht it really doesnt matter if u live or die or are a good person or not. Its quite a depressive outlook on life woulnt u agree? of course it is, wouldnt it be nice to give purpose to our lives? woulndnt it be... comforting? of course it would, hence RELIGION, the belief that there is some purpose to our lives, that there is somone else there, that we arnt alone in this "ocean of chaos" and that we are loved by something other than ourselves. (sound comforting to me).

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why, i wonder? why do want to be more? i mean this in truth, not as a retorical argument.

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(why is it a him anyway, what is so special about a male?

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God is not a he or a she. we call Him He because males are physically and socially superior, or were at the time when we were trying to put a name to God. yes, we had to reduce him to language, that doesnt mean we invented him.

'That there is someone else there, that we are loved by something other than ourselves (sound comforting to me).' Yeah, doesn't it just. Especially to those who don't feel the love even from their own race. It really starts to sound nice. You should try it.

'why is it a him anyway, what is so special about a male? I it make sence that it would be a male, considering males were viewed at I time of the origin of the bible to be far superior, to the more inferior woman at that time. This is proof to me that HE is infact an invented creation in our minds' hold on a second. What if god was considered a woman? Wouldn't men be complaining then? (oh wait, mwahaha, 'men have feelings too, but who really cares,' eh?? *shakes head. Who comes up with this stuff anyway?) Point being, it's a fifty-fifty chance, are they going to call god male or are they going to call god female. Either way, the opposite sex is going to complain, but you just can't make everybody happy now, can you. God should be an 'it' in my opinion. But alas, it would be harder for people to connect with an 'it' so hey why not choose the currently more "dominant" gender. you have to consider that there's not a lot of choices, and the one that happens to be it ('he') could have just happened to coincide with things like males were considered more powerful then.

'thus it is pointless to attempt to think about what happened before the big bang because it has no bearing whatsoever in the reality we are present with,. This is because everthing before it was completely abolished and what may have been the laws of science before could be completely I that those of today' Umm, yeah, so, just because I know I have an annoying human mind that isn't probably capable of understanding the concepts, I still wanna know what came before... its called curiosity.

'as time goes by so goes natural selection, via survival of the fittest, of the best genetics.' Yup. How much longer do you think we humans are going to hold out? I dunno, tho, we're getting awful good at 'modern technology' nowadays, with our cars and buildings and fancy medicines that keep people alive when natural selection should have seen them dead long ago., etc. But its kinda scary to think about.

You know the pieces fit, huh... Tool addict. *shakes head.... *shifty eyes... *guilty grin

Can you explain 'miracles?" For instance, a friend who's mother had cancer and the family prayed over the mother right before surgery and at the start of the surgery the doctors discovered the cancer was gone... (yes, this happened)

'you want to I what I think about life.. here goes'. Well, no, actually, I don't care what you think... j/k. If I didn't care I wouldn't be reading it now, would I.

-just another being in this crazy ocean of chaos

religion is a social contruction....social constructions create difference among people....pride in difference causes animosity....animosity often has led to war....therefore religion is inherently 'evil'

While i must admit that it is tempting to not belive in God

i must also admit that i have seen and heard demon poseesed people things that make your blood go cold and i was once a critic.
You might think im Crasy but it is more real than you think and the only thing that they are afraid of is the blood of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God

Laugh, condem me, i dont care i know what i saw
it is written
Romans 1:20-For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Myst, you have a severly screwed up perception of heaven. let me define for you heaven and hell. heaven is a place where we are completely in the presense of God and hell is a place where we are completely apart from Him. all misery comes from our seperation from God. Heaven will be, very simply, the way the world was meant to be. we will still work, still have purpose. sin, satan, is a hindrence to all we could achieve. God is not this faceless thing out there. you talk of how you cant believe people would love him more then anything, more then life even. all the disiples of Jesus save one died horrible deaths for Him, left their family and lives for Him. thousands of martyrs died in ancient Rome for Him. all they would have had to say was, "I dont believe Jesus is the son of God." and they would have gone free. People don't die for things that dont matter to them, or that they dont believe. when you truly know god, you have no choice but to love him. he become more important, not because he has to be, but because everything else just doesnt matter by comparison. also, christians are not mindless week "sheep". before you assume evolution is science and intelligent design is an unsupported religion for the weak minded, i advise you to investigate. read "Case for a creator" by lee strobel if you really want to find out about the other side of this argument. Much of what you were taught in school about evolution is a lie. i am not a christian because i wanted to be, i am a christian because i was logically convinced of it. before you settle on, we're all going to die and rot because me science teacher said so, look around. there's more to it then that. I am not denying that many people are christians because they are afraid of hell or nothingness, but many people are atheists because they are afraid of God. if you really care, if you really want an answer, look for it. it's there. i promise.

By the size of the posts, I would suspect that perception and myst are the same person.

I've not read the posts - to much reading for me.

Rant is what it is. Falls into the catagory of Mania.

Once again pseudoscience is used by people so terrified that God exists that they will believe anything. Anybody who doesn't think God exists has never looked for Him and real science will prove that. If evolution was fact, which even Darwin doubted, why have evolutionists been hiding evidence that disproves their world views? Obviously they are afraid of being wrong. Real life disproves the big bang. Ever notice how all the evidence evolutionists have is circular logic? We believe it happened therefore it did happen and so we believe in it. What a joke! Science can prove the reality of the Bible while pseudoscience can only make ignorant people happy in the knowledge that they have something to cling to. Now who is weak minded?

"The human race did fine before your religion was born dear, and would have done fine afterwards too." Just a point of interest Christianity may be relatively new but it is the fulfillment of the oldest religion in existence. There was no before it and there will be no after.

I know having said this you will call me ignorant and all the rest and if that makes you feel better about yourselves then so be it. Try as you might I have something that you cannot take from me.

let me criticise some of your profound intellectual statments that u have been writing. you say that religions r designed for the weak minded well of course it is not religions and i'm talking specifically on christianity is too hard for normal people like you and i to understand it totlally because it's god's words. god is everywhere even in us we r filled with the holy spirit which gives us the power to control and choose the significance between the good and the bad. as u have mentioned u r excluding the power of faith and belief in a humans life. religion is the power in which we posses and manipulate all other things around us it helps us understand the difference between ourBRAINS which is one of the most undiscovered power a human has. religion is the combined nature of both god and human beings. christianity for example is one of the most religions that conveys my point. maybe you should stick to one of the concepts of mind that is belief.beleiving is seeing through religion u can see everything around u and consider it properly and understand it the way it should be understood and that power comes by religion

one thing in particular has always struck as just plain stupid in christianity ( i suspect a similar situation exists in most other relgions, but i know most about crhistianity due to having been raised a christian), and that is the devil. If god is omnipotent then surely he would have the power to obliterate the devil, although according to all reports he hasnt, the devil still manages to steal some of gods people from under his watchful eye. why does god allow it? ive heard apparently that the devil has been mortally wounded and is dying, but trying to take as many people with him as he can. why does god allow it? seems pretty shoddy to me from an all powerful god.

If anyone is now thinking free will, i have several suggestions as to what you can do with those two words. the most polite is forget them, it balatanly exists, but is used far to much by christianity to gel over all manner of evils and discrepancies. god may have given us free will, but an absence of god would be an equally valid explanation for free will. if god had made us and wanted us to follow him and wanted to protect us, surely the last thing he would have done, would have been to allow the greatest tempter to give screwing the human race over his best shot. free will means we can choose to follow him or not.

The other major thing that has always buged me, is the garden of eden story. we screwed up due to devils temptation, so what does he do? he distances himself from us, leaving us to fend for ourselves in our hour of greatest need. once again, he recieves the GW Bush award for intelligence. that move was almost surrender, " uve sinned, i've lost you, therefore im distancing myself. its like your best friend suddenly saying "ok u stole some of my sweets, i forgive you, but from now on your only allowed to text or email me, though i may phone you if and immediate family memeber dies". "to err is human, to forgive divine" anyone else starting to wonder?

The most polite suggestion i have for the first person who comes out with the "the ways of god are to deep for our mortal understanding" would probably get me chucked off this forum. so lets just say dont give me that crap please.