Morals for sale

Are Morals A Good Thing?
Considering that we live in a society that has based all its laws and morals on religion, lets for a moment consider that all religion was only created by man to enforce a specific structure of living. Who are we to say what is wrong or right our perspectives are limited to what we know?

Morals are in my opinion nothing more then what a society generally agrees on being right or wrong. As you said our perspectives are limited to what we know, because of that what we percieve to be right or wrong are what we consider right or wrong. Morals are just what the majority of a society agree on being right or wrong. So are morals a good thing? Well if you asked society on a whole, that'd be yes since it was society that decided what those morals were, and if they didn't think they were a good thing then they wouldn't live by those morals.

Obviously but what I want to know is from everyone here is there personal view points on the whole thing...I am a misanthrope but cant decide if all moral standings are that bad after all im attempting to look at it from a totally 'non human' view point.

I think that morals are essential. I think that without morals, people would think that it ok to steal, kill, rape, cheat and so on as if it wen't a big deal. Morals do hold up back from doing certain things but I think it's more of a protection for us.

Well, if I were to try and look at it from a non human point of view then I would probably say morals make no sense, and are not good. From that view point, it makes no sense to limit what you do and hold yourself back because of some sense of it being wrong. I am sure if I cheated, stole, and murdered anyone in my way I would probably be better off, so why should I then limit myself? My own view is they are needed though. Even though they might not make sense if you are on the outside looking in, they are needed to make sure people don't go around doing horrible things for personal gain. So my view is they are good, but from a non human perspective make no sense at all and only serve to make people feel they are being good.

So from a non-human point of view, it would only serve as a restriction, so the concept of having morals would be of no regard. But feelings come into play also. Say you killed someone, and didn't feel bad because you didn't have any morals, say we all didn't, but say the person you killed was someone's bestfriend, although they didn't have morals, they'll still be sad or angry about what you did because you took away their friend, so they'd act on their feelings and maybe kill you to, without feeling shame in doing so. So maybe on a non-human point of view where morals are of no concern, there wouldn't be morals but instead laws not based on morals but on feelings. So the feelings would be the guidelines for us to follow. Make sense?

Non human? How so?

DO animals like our morals? If they are maintained..then they appreciate us loving all of the creatures we are to tend to.

BUT from an objective point of view...

Let's pretend we are aliens or whatever...observing life on earth...

WE have two tests cases to study and test cases are placed on two geographically polar areas..

One side of the world is without morals...
They are despots, and are all self fulfilling. {Immediate gratification is a human tendency after all}

They steal, covet, murder, rape, molest, commit adultery, beat and harm, mutilate others properties, commit riot acts, and all in all...desire and take. NO HOLDS BAR.

Other test case are told to FEAR a Higher Being. And in order to appease this Higher Being, they must act lovingly, be helpful, avoid immorality, strive for patience, avoid 'using' others, avoid gossip, asked to smile and be kind no matter, give a helping hand..and be self sacrificing.

Not sure about anyone else...but I would prefer to live in the neighborhood with those who had morals.

Even today we have HIGH CRIME RATE AREAS....which in fact have low moral standards.
We have high moral areas, where the Crime Rate is reduced.

It is common sense. Take morals out of the mix, and we would NEVER SURVIVE ONE ANOTHER.

Yes, I'm really grateful for morals though. I'd probably be dead without them.

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Yes, I'm really grateful for morals though. I'd probably be dead without them.

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Amen!

Morals are indeed a great thing, but morals are a learned trait, not inherent in the human animal. So the question is who decides what morals are appropriate? Christian morals are founded on cultures much older than the Xian or Zion beliefs. Note I said, 'based'. For one thing, women were considered equal to men, in governing, religious, and warrior roles. This was 'adjusted' by the patriarchs of the early Church. Homosexuals were at one time considered very powerful in religious circles, having 'feet in both worlds', boundaries are still very important to Pagan believes of spiritual power. Physical intimacies were considered a sacred act, a celebration of the God and Goddess, some ancient peoples would 'marry' for life and stay totally committed to one person, some didn't, but were not ostracized by their peers for their choice of life style.

Other than the differences in gender equality and sexual preferences and activities, Pagan and Christian morals are very similar.

That's my moral standard, the golden rule, older than any religion for a reason.

As for the non human aspect, I'm really glad someone made that point, are you guys aware that Corporations are given legal human rights, yet are infamous for acting without morals?

These are the entities with power and influence on a local and now global scale, these are the sources of most of our government and world leaders, like the jokes of morality in referrence to lawyers and politiciansm, which are generally in the same group anyway.

"From that view point, it makes no sense to limit what you do and hold yourself back because of some sense of it being wrong. I am sure if I cheated, stole, and murdered anyone in my way I would probably be better off, so why should I then limit myself?"

This could be a Corporate Mafia slogan.

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That's my moral standard, the golden rule, older than any religion for a reason.

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Well lefty, I sure would not treat you as you treat others...because I have seen the rude and crude if not nasty stuff you said to Marlboro Cowboy.

Anyway, let's look back on the history of moral vs immoral areas.
PRE Christ days, the Romans had a BATH house, aka an orgy house.
Where men went to meet with whores, and have an orgy fest.

The wives would sleep with other women, and men likewise with other men.
They all cheated and no one married was in a monogamous relationship.

IN fact, who paid this price??

Although few have the empathy...here is who paid this price...
Babies born out of wedlock to the whores or to women dissatisfied in their marriage, were taken to the basement of the bath house, and left there to starve to death...while they returned to merriment.
Partying over the child as it cried...and no one took these children to comfort or feed.

Watched this on the History channel. It definitely made me cringe. HOW could ppl do this to a baby...??

Anyway, as in the times when Solomon allowed pagan gods...Malachi was one named god in fact, the ppl would take their first born...
AND they placed them on this rock which somehow lifted by pulley to the 'mouth' of the god..and while fire burned in the hole 'mouth' they threw the baby in as the lil person screamed and burned a horrible death.

BUT...with morals, comes man's FREEDOM...
Without we all must fear.

WHO can stop murder, rape, and all sorts of abominations without a code of 'moral law'?...to treat others as we wish treated was the rule of Jesus.

That did not come from a self motivated idea. Because eye for an eye was common place among the historical counts.
AS it is also the living truth in ppl's hearts.

HOW many wish to exact revenge?? 99.9% of the world.

Ex; If your neighbor does something you hate...you find revenge. Calling cops...returning the favor. ETC.

The lists go on.

"Well lefty, I sure would not treat you as you treat others...because I have seen the rude and crude if not nasty stuff you said to Marlboro Cowboy."

Boy, you sure are a one sided lot aren't you. Didn't catch his posts I take it, and his lovely demeanor? Friend of yours? Condescending and self righteous, could be family from where I sit. And you do treat others just as such. And there was nothing scathing or crude about my posts to him either, your defensive one sided judgemental mentality blinds you to your actions and of those you choose alliance with.

Your hypocricy, bias, and closed mindedness are reaching legendary proportions.

For a woman who knows her scriptures well, you certainly haven't read up on history much.
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'PRE Christ days, the Romans had a BATH house, aka an orgy house. Where men went to meet with whores, and have an orgy fest.'

No, a Bath House was just that, communal bathing, which were segregated by gender. The Japanese have communal bathing, even today, they simply view the human body as non-sexual, as long as the pubic hair is not exposed. The absurd negative views, and the over-sexuality, of the human body in form today is the direct result of the Church and it's doctrines. Besides, have you ever been to an orgy? Obviously not, so you do not have a right to judge those that would.
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'The wives would sleep with other women, and men likewise with other men. They all cheated and no one married was in a monogamous relationship.'

Firstly, you are stereotyping. Not all ancient or modern Pagans are as 'promiscuous' as you seem to claim, nor enjoy same-gender intimacy. Pagan does not mean gay, nor vise versa, the majority of homo- and bisexuals in the States today are in fact Christian, and many Pagans enjoy a totally devoted monogamous relationship. Right up through the 19th century, mistresses where quite common among Christian men, where exactly did you think American Mulattos originated? If a wife had a 'head ache', the husband was quite welcomed to partake of this mistress. And feel welcomed to explain Church run and sanctioned brothels throughout history.
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'WHO can stop murder, rape, and all sorts of abominations without a code of 'moral law'?...to treat others as we wish treated was the rule of Jesus.'

Modern Neo-Pagans have our own moral code. Again, quite close to Christian mores, except where sex is concerned, we are simply not 'hung-up' concerning the human body and intimate relationships. You also fail to mention, or probably even recognize, the fact that of all the crimes committed in North America, including murder, theft, rape and so on, that Neo-Pagans, including Wiccans, are conspicuously absent. So who has the superior Moral Code? Even 'historical' references are, again, questionable due to its source. The ancient European pre-Christian cultures were largely Oral Traditions, and there is simply no written evidence issuing directly from those European Pagans, the Nords were the exception, not the rule. What we do have are supposed 'historical accounts' written by Christians, after Paganism was largely wiped out in Europe, a source whose motivations are certainly questionable. Even the 'accounts' of the sacrifice if innocents, among European Pagans, cannot be supported by evidence. Accountability among the clergy is a relatively modern concept; there is simply no reason to suspect that those ancient monks were being truthful, and not 'bending' the truth to further the cause of their own religion.