The time is NOW! IT is your choice.

Is this of any relevance in the light of what happened in Asia on the
>26th of December? Independent of any creed or Religion, it is better to
>be prepared and be in good terms with GOD, though we never know when we
>will be leaving this world...
>THE LAST SECRET OF FATIMA.
>The Church has given permission to reveal to the people the last part
>of the message. The Blessed Virgin apeared to three children in Fatima,
>Portugal in 1917. This is a proven fact.
>One of these children is still alive, her name is Lucia and she is a
>recluse nun and lives in a European monastery. Lucia disclosed the
>message for the first time to Pope Pio XXII, who after reading it
>sealed and stored it away without making it public. Later John XXIII
>read it and in the same manner as his predecessor, kept it out of
>public eye because he knew that once revealed, it will bring
>desperation and panic to the human kind. Now the time has come and
>permission has been granted from Pope John Paul II to reveal it to the
>children of God in order not to create panic, but to make people aware
>of this important message so everybody can be prepared.
>The Virgin told Lucia: "Go my child and tell the world what will come
>to pass during the years 1950-2005. Men are not practicing the
>commandments that our Father has given us. Evil is governing the world
>and is harvesting hate and resentment all over. Men will fabricate
>mortal weapons that destroy the world in minutes and half of the human
race will be destroyed.
>The war will begin against Rome and there will be conflicts amongst
>religious orders. "God will allow all natural phenomenons like smoke,
>hale, cold, water, fire, flood, earthquakes, winds and inclement
>weather will slowly batter the planet. These things will come to pass
in the year 2004.
>Those who do not believe, this is the time your beloved mother tells
>you those lacking charity towards others and those who do not love thy
>neighbor like my beloved Son has loved you all, cannot survive. They
>will wish they had died. Our Lord God will punish severely those who do
>not believe in Him, those who despise Him and those who did not have
>time for Him. I call upon all of you to come to my son Jesus Christ.
>God helps the world but all of those who do not show fidelity and
>loyalty will be destroyed. Father Agustin who lives in Fatima said that
>Pope Paul VI gave him permission to visit Sister Lucia who is a recluse
>nun (she does not leave the monastery nor allowed to receive any
>visitors).
>Father Agustin said that she was greatly overwhelmed to receive him and
>told him: "Father, our Lady is very sad because nobody is interested in
>her prophecy of 1917, though the righteous are walking through a narrow
>path, the evil ones are walking through an ample road that is leading
>them straight to their destruction. Believe me father, the punishment
>will come very soon.
>Many souls will be lost, many nations will disappear from the earth,
>but in the middle of all these, if men reflect, pray and practice good
>deeds, the world can be saved. On all of these, if men persist with its
>evil, the world will be lost forever. The time has come for all to pass
>on the message of our Blessed Lady to their families, friends and to
>the entire world. Start praying to make penitence and catastrophes are
>near. Due to this, many who were far from the church will return to the
>open arms of the Catholic Church. England, Russia, China, the Jews and
>Protestants, all will return believing and worshipping God our Creator,
>in his beloved Son and in our Blessed Mother Virgin Mary.
>"WHAT AWAITS US?
>>Everywhere there will be "Peace Talks" but punishments will come. A MAN
>IN A VERY IMPORTANT POSITION WILL BE ASSASSINATED AND THIS WILL PROVOKE THE WAR. A POWERFUL ARMY WILL DOMINATE ALL THROUGH EUROPE AND THE NUCLEAR WAR WILL COMMENCE.

>>This war will destroy everything. Darkness will fall over us. For 72
>hours (three days) and the one third of humanity that survives this
>obscurity and sacrifice will commence to live a new era, they will be
>good people. In a very cold night, 10 minutes before midnight, A GREAT
>QUAKE will shake the earth for 8 hours. This will be the third signal
>that God governs the earth. The righteous and those who propagate the
>faith and the message the Lady of Fatima SHOULD NOT FEAR.
>DO NOT BE AFRAID. WHAT TO DO? Bow your heads kneel down and ask God for
>forgiveness because only what is good and is not under the power of
>evil will survive the catastrophe. In order for you to prepare and
>remain alive I will give you the following signs: ANGUISH... AND IN A
>SHORT PERIOD THE EARTHQUAKE WILL COMMENCE...THE EARTH WILL SHAKE...The shake will be so violent that it will move the earth 23 degrees then

>return to its normal position. Then total and absolute darkness will
>cover the entire planet. All evil spirits will be mingling around and
>free, doing harm to all those souls that did not want to listen to this
>message and those who did not want to repent. To the faithful souls,
>remember to light the blessed candles. Prepare a sacred altar with a
>crucifix in order to communicate with GOD and implore for his infinite
>mercy. All will be dark; IN THE SKY A GREAT MYSTIC CROSS will appear to
>remind us the price that his beloved Son had to pay for our redemption
>In the house the only thing that can give light will be the HOLY
CANDLES. Once lit nothing will put them off until the three days of darkness are
>over. Also you should have Holy Water that should be sprinkled
>abundantly on windows and doors.The Lord will protect the property of
the chosen ones.Kneel down before the powerful cross of my Beloved Son, pray the rosary and after each Hail Mary, you must pray the following "Oh God forgive

>us our sins, preserve us from the fire of hell, take all souls into
>Heaven, especially those who are in more need of thy mercy. Blessed
>Virgin Mary, protect us, we love you, save us and save the world.
>"Pray 5 Creeds and the rosary which is the secret to my Immaculate
Heart.All those who believe in my words, go and take the message to everyone.

>DO NOT FEAR. Those who keep quiet will be responsible for all those
>souls who will perish in ignorance. All those who pray humbly the
>rosary will have the protection of Heaven and those who are bound to
>die, I will help them die in peace and they will be holy when they
>enter the other world, I wish all my children to attend mass every
>first Friday and every first Saturday of each month to confess and
>receive Holy Communion and in doing so, save the world from TOTAL
DESTRUCTION.
>When the earth shakes no more, those who still will not believe in our
>Lord will perish in a horrible way. The wind will bring gas and it will
>disperse everywhere then the sun will rise. Maybe you will survive this
>catastrophe. Do not forget that God's punishment is holy, and ONCE IT
>HAS STARTED YOU SHOULD NOT LOOK OUTSIDE, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, GOD
>DOES NOT WANT ANY OF HIS CHILDREN TO SEE WHEN HE PUNISHES THE SINNERS .
>All this encompasses with the writings of the Holy Scriptures. Read in
>the New Testament Lucas 21-5; 121, 12:19, 20: 20, 29:33, Letters of St.

>Paul 3-8-14, Isaiah 40, 1:5:9 You must understand that God allows all
>these to happen.The Pope and Bishops are now awaiting another message that speaks about repentance and prayer. Remember that God's words are not a threat, but good news. Please reproduce these pages and send them to all the people

>that you know so we all can have the opportunity to repent and be
>saved. We do not know it those receiving this message believe or not in
>GOD, but think, there is a reason for receiving this message.
>Maybe, the Creator is giving us the chance to be saved, no matter what
>religion or creed. If you do not believe in this message, at least send
>it to others, it will cost you nothing. To all those receiving it, they
>can have the opportunity to judge for themselves. Remember, we can
>avoid a great deal if we practice the 10 Commandments that Our Father
>God has left us. They are just 10 simple things that if we put into
>practice, we can obtain God's pardon. Jesus in you I trust.
>Did you know that Vasula Ryden said something about the towers in NY
>last September 11, 1991? Christina Gallagher also said something last
>September 11, 1999? Something to the effect that America will be
>destroyed if they do not turn to prayers. And do you remember the
>fluvial Marian procession spearheaded by Filipinos, the group of June
>Keithley, Lydia Sison, etc. and participated in by many countries was
>held in NY also last September 11,
>1999 for the Lady of all Nations. They are asking for prayers, more
>prayers, more rosaries - because of the uncertainty of the times, and
>fear for the worse due to the war. More women (especially in NY) are
>resorting to abortion and they are being helped or encouraged even
>more. Despite the prevalence already before, now it has increased due
>to panic. We are asked to pray unceasingly for them all. Also, this
>prayer to Our Lady of Guadalupe is very fitting. After all, she is the
>patroness of America and also of Pro-life. This is a beautiful prayer.
>Please do not break this chain... it is miraculous.
>Letter to the Virgin of Guadalupe
>"Beautiful Virgin of Guadalupe, I ask you on behalf of all my brothers
>and sisters of the world that you bless us and protect us. Give us
>proof of your love and kindness and please receive our prayers. Oh pure
>Virgin of Guadalupe, give me through your Son, forgiveness for my sins,
>blessings for my job, cure for my diseases and needs, and all that you
>deem necessary, I ask for my family and my country. Oh Saint Mother of
>God, do not disdain the pleas we present to you in our needs."
>>Dear brothers and sisters, I want to impart to you the presence of the
>Virgin of Guadalupe, and that she is miraculous and is always with us
>wherever we go. This letter has the objective to go around the world to
>receive miracles. Try to make copies and share it with others.

*YAWN*

Are you trying to make a point, or just spewing more theosophical rhetoric please?

Patrish, I understand what you're trying to do, but you are doing it in all the wrong ways.

First, even I, someone who loved reading, won't read something that long.

Second, what you are saying is nothing new. All religions say similar things. But few people heed this doomsday warning. Religion lost its respect when science advanced because people did not need to rely on religion to explain certain phenomena anymore. If people don't respect religion, how can they believe anything you say?

Rethink your approach if you want your words to have more of an effect.

I dont need to impress anyone...

Frankly, really no skin off my nose, but you were warned.
Science .....!! Lmao.

I need not dignify that absurd statement....sorry but science is something made up by man.
Nature is made by God.

BTW, b4 we start that debate {Again} YOU explain in your own words how each species created both a male a female...(and how absurd is it to even believe they somehow knew how to fit one another.)

Pah~lease, do NOT insult my intelligence again.

Trish, I just wonder if you will be spouting the same garbage when you are in your 80's?

People have been shouting "the sky is falling" for millenium, the only way one could perish is if they were holding their breath waiting for it to happen.

If you wish for a debate, may I suggest you take and break your agruments down into smaller segments, and post only one or two at a time? A forum such as this is not a person's personal Soap Box, there is free web space available for people to create their own Soap Box to "save the world".

Ok, Lil' Miss Fundie, since you seem to have 'all the answers', answer me this...

If God made man and woman, and intimacy, why is recreational sex wrong?
If God made everyone, then why are homosexuals evil?
If God made everyone, then why are non-Christians evil?
If God made everyone, why are Fundies right, and everyone else wrong?
If God made everyone, did He not 'make' all the other religions as well?
If God created all, then those of us using our 'free will' are merely following 'His will', yes?
When someone claims 'It is/was Gods will' where do they get off pretending to know God's will?

quote:

---

If God made man and woman, and intimacy, why is recreational sex wrong?

---

Because it hurts...it is not borne of love for another.
In fact it is using another.

quote:

---

If God made everyone, then why are homosexuals evil?

---

The person is NOT evil...but the act is Because God did not make man to fit in another man in this way. He made man to have a help mate...a woman. In which they would become one and continue creating more souls to fill His Kingdom.

quote:

---

If God made everyone, then why are non-Christians evil?

---

Non Christians are not evil, they are not educated. They have no knowledge of GOD...and I mean that in more ways tan just thinking about Him. But to know Him...is to feel Him surround you. Like you would have a friend who is next to, you feel their 'aura'...this is true of God too.

quote:

---

If God made everyone, why are Fundies right, and everyone else wrong?

---

Because we all have an ending. You cannot ignore that. IF a person does not show others the love of God, they are with holding something that is deemed necessary for their salvation. AGAIN, this is an act contrary to love....if we ignore the ignorance of non believers.
God wants everyone...because He made everyone, and His love is not exclusive. IT is man's free will that pushes Him away.

quote:

---

If God made everyone, did He not 'make' all the other religions as well?

---

Indeed, men made other religions.
Aside from Judiac principles, which transpired during the Isreali's fleeing from Egypt, led by a leader God choose...Moses.
After which it was always thru out scripture..a Promised covenant, a Savior.
Thus The Savior came into the world..and He led His followers to stay with Him and learn what they were to do.
Thus He choose Simon of Jona as His man...calling him Cephas...meaning Peter.... meaning ROCK.
Pagans and what not are man made...because they do not follow the singular creator. But many times this was due to their ignorance of His existence.
IF given the info and turn away, well, that is free will.
Their gods wont save them tho. Because they do NOT exist.

quote:

---

If God created all, then those of us using our 'free will' are merely following 'His will', yes?

---

Satan had free will too. If we turn away, it is our choice..as satan did.
Doesnt make it right...but it is a choice he would not take from us.
Free will is the marker God uses for us to have the freedom to choose to love Him in return. He already loves us..what merit is it if our love returned if it without a free will? But forced?

quote:

---

When someone claims 'It is/was Gods will' where do they get off pretending to know God's will?

---

Broad question, or statement.

God's will has been kept intact thru the ages called a Bible. To know that, is to know His Will...He never hid His will from us.
He wants it known, so we know what it is we should do to be close to Him.
Instead we estrange ourselves.

His Will is that all His creatures are with Him eternally in His kingdom, where they will have Love abound, and Peace, and Complete Happiness.

If any of these sound repulsive, then you are right to stay away from Him.

The opposite spectrum is living eternal Hate, Anger, Pain, and Burning.

The choice is ours to make.

For those in complete ignornace...God is merciful.
But for those who intentionally embrace ignorance, it is their judgement.

Peace Out!

quote:

---

Because it hurts...it is not borne of love for another.
In fact it is using another.

---

It hurts? It doesn't hurt if both partners participate consensually.

quote:

---

He already loves us..what merit is it if our love returned if it without a free will?[quote]
Which is why we'll burn in hell forever if we don't return that love. God threatens us with eternal damnation, and then claims we have the choice of loving him. He wants us to force ourselves to love him through fear of hell.


[quote]God's will has been kept intact thru the ages called a Bible. To know that, is to know His Will...He never hid His will from us.
He wants it known, so we know what it is we should do to be close to Him.

---

Put another way. Its your OPINION that God's will is reflected in the Bible. No one really knows if the Bible has any relation to God whatsoever. Its a question of faith. Faith is another way of saying "I have no clue but I believe in it anyway".

quote:

---

His Will is that all His creatures are with Him eternally in His kingdom, where they will have Love abound, and Peace, and Complete Happiness.

---

Which is why he invented all those natural disasters and plagues we love so much.

quote:

---

The opposite spectrum is living eternal Hate, Anger, Pain, and Burning.

---

So if I actually use my free will, I will be punished. Pseudo-free-will bay-be.

quote:

---

It hurts? It doesn't hurt if both partners participate consensually.

---

You do not know if it is consensual for alterior motives, do you?
Perhaps a woman will sleep with a man in hopes he will fall in love with her...but it doesnt happen. The owman is crushed.

And if you stay within the bonds of love, and do not wander, you remain faithful and have the help mate.
If you are sleeping around, you ignore the feelings of the other person.

It is SELF GRATIFYING, MORE THAN LOVE.

quote:

---

It hurts? It doesn't hurt if both partners participate consensually.

---

You do not know if it is consensual for alterior motives, do you?
Perhaps a woman will sleep with a man in hopes he will fall in love with her...but it doesnt happen. The woman is crushed.

And if you stay within the bonds of love, and do not wander, you remain faithful and have the help mate.
If you are sleeping around, you ignore the feelings of the other person.

It is SELF GRATIFYING, MORE THAN LOVE.

SELF LOVE...because you do NOT have to consider someone else's feelings.

quote:

---

Put another way. Its your OPINION that God's will is reflected in the Bible. No one really knows if the Bible has any relation to God whatsoever. Its a question of faith. Faith is another way of saying "I have no clue but I believe in it anyway".

---

Put it this way...eons of years of the written word intact from the original authors is more than proove...unless we become keen unto our own inferior intellect.

quote:

---

Which is why he invented all those natural disasters and plagues we love so much.

---

What parent does not admonish his children?
What mother allows their child to wander on dangerous terrain without a warning.
God controls the universe..so He will use it to warn...it is up to you to realise or not. Punishment is also for those who will not soften.

quote:

---

So if I actually use my free will, I will be punished. Pseudo-free-will bay-be.

---

Ask yourself if you use your free will to show your love back to God...or for yourself.

quote:

---

You do not know if it is consensual for alterior motives, do you?
Perhaps a woman will sleep with a man in hopes he will fall in love with her...but it doesnt happen. The woman is crushed.

---

I did not say having sex to make a man love you is good. I said, having sex if you want the sex is good.

quote:

---

SELF LOVE...because you do NOT have to consider someone else's feelings.

---

If she has made clear she wants to "love herself" with a partner, then she is free to do so.

quote:

---

Put it this way...eons of years of the written word intact from the original authors is more than proove...unless we become keen unto our own inferior intellect.

---

What, all old books are fact? Please, by that logic we can trust the Odyssey, the Illiad, Herodotus' works or the Koran as fact.

You don't know why you believe in the Bible. You are too lazy to even try verifying if it is true.

quote:

---

Punishment is also for those who will not soften.

---

Yes, he sure taught those 200,000 South east Asians a good lesson. They shouldn't have been so evil.

Fool.

quote:

---

Ask yourself if you use your free will to show your love back to God...or for yourself.

---

No you listen. This is not a question of will, this is a question of beliefs. If I believed in hell I would love God, because I would fear going to hell. However, I don't believe in hell and I don't believe in God, so I am obviously completely incapable of loving him.

My reply to your ommission of guilt or morals is the same...

You can believe this or not...up to you.

But only you shall know in the end or end times how God will over power the wicked. If your heart remains unconvinced it is not my responsibilty any longer.
I told you by this thread what is to come...

3 or 4 Apparitions have stated the same thing...
In different countries to different ppl. ...over the last one hundred years.

None knew the other...
Fatima, Garabandal, Medjugorje, and Akita...

IT is not up to me to convinve the fool hearted...just a job to warn those who do believe.

For as it says, God will punish his wicked children.

Therefore, I will not pander to you....nor do I feel the need to coddle my actions, and deal with the afrontal attacks from you.

AS far as I am concerned, you are lost.
DO I take joy in that...I say I do not. But I know the boundaries of evil, and I know the hearts that are stone towards God.

With this I dismiss you. Peace!

'Because it hurts...it is not borne of love for another. In fact it is using another.'

Not when both parties are consenting adults. This as opposed to the non-consenting children your own priests violate. But I suppose that was Gods will as well?

'The person is NOT evil...but the act is Because God did not make man to fit in another man in this way. He made man to have a help mate...a woman. In which they would become one and continue creating more souls to fill His Kingdom.'

But if God made the homosexual, why then is the act itself evil? He created it in your theology.

'Non Christians are not evil, they are not educated. '

Not indoctrinated, you mean? That statement is insulting to every non-Christian in the world. But then again, we have come to expect such remarks for self styled Fundie 'Christians'.

'Because we all have an ending...'

More theosophical rheotirc.

'Indeed, men made other religions.'

Hypocritical, your beliefs claim God makes everything.

'Their gods wont save them tho. Because they do NOT exist.'

And some wonder why Christianity is 'under attack' today. This very isolationist agenda is responsible.

'Satan had free will too.'

Satan is a Christian concept, and does not apply to the rest of the world, as Hell does not either.

'Broad question, or statement.'

And your reply is very vague.

I do believe you are right Angelfire, and although I usually will not make personal comments about individuals in particular, we are indeed 'graced' with the presence of a Web Troll. And I do believe we have been 'banished' by the Fundie. I wonder if she will Smite us next. We had better break out our Smote Proof underwear.

All of you Fundies need to understand one thing; you are part of a worldwide religious community. Your isolationist agenda is solely responsible for the decline in your worshipers. A person who breaks free of your Fundie Dogma is not going to hell, they are thinking for themselves, and realize how despicable and contradictory fundamentalism in any form can be, and the hate taught by that doctrine. Are they actually less the Christian for distancing themselves from the Fundamentalist and Extremist Christian mindset?

You just keep going on explaining your hate filled agenda to yourself as God's Will or God's Love, or however you wish to reconcile your bigotry to yourself. I will stand among the other religions in this world, including true Christians, and oppose the Fundamental Agenda with every fiber of my being, in whatever religious tradition it disguises itself in. The US already rid the world of one group of Fundamentalists, in Afghanistan, and now we will rid ourselves of this cancer on our own soil.

To bring up a subject you yourself supported, do you really think Gandhi himself would have forwarded this Fundie Manifesto? Did he once preach intolerance, prejudice, or place one religion above another? Think on it Trish, if you can tear your mind free for a moment from your Fundie dogma. Does the Fundamental Christian doctrines really follow the Christ's teachings? The moment you remove your cranium from it's present anal abode, you will see that the Fundie Xian Agenda is after one thing, and one thing only. It is not, as you propose, world salvation, but world domination, pure and utter earthly power.

quote:

---

My reply to your ommission of guilt or morals is the same...

---

I would feel extremely guilty if I had sex with a girl without her consent (read: rape). However, if she clearly gave me her consent, why the hell should I feel bad?

quote:

---

But only you shall know in the end or end times how God will over power the wicked.

---

I think you're evil too, so I guess we're even.

quote:

---

3 or 4 Apparitions have stated the same thing...
In different countries to different ppl. ...over the last one hundred years.

---

You mean 3 or 4 lunatics. I will trust what I have seen and what is verifiable. Not hearsay and superstition.

quote:

---

AS far as I am concerned, you are lost.
DO I take joy in that...I say I do not. But I know the boundaries of evil, and I know the hearts that are stone towards God.

---

If my heart is only stone, then your head is pure bone.

IrishPagan - The sad thing is this troll isn't even isolationist! She really believes Christianity is going to convert all those pagans, heathens and infidels! Very very sad.