"Tell that to Abraham Lincoln and all freed slaves!'
Lincoln was a racist, what else would you call a man who attempted to pass laws in his home state excluding free blacks? He was politically motivated to abolish slavery on at least two counts
1. It would remove support from abolitionist England and France for the South. This was accomplished with the Emancipation Proclamation, which in fact did not free slaves. Those two countries immediately removed all support for the South when the Proclamation was made public.
2. Growing Abolitionist Sentiment among the Voting public.
-------------------------------------------
"The Christian part was apparent as the elected representatives would obviously be heavily Christian.'
Andrew Jackson, as President wrote in a letter explaining his refusal to proclaim a national day of prayer: 'I could not do otherwise without transcending the limits prescribed by the Constitution for the President and without feeling that I might in some degree disturb the security which religion nowadays enjoys in this country in its complete separation from the political concerns of the General Government.'
Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to Peter Carr (1787) "Question with boldness even the existence of a god." And in a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely (1819) he wrote, "You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, wrote, "I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" and in his "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1788) he wrote, ' . . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
In 1785, James Madison, called the Father of the Constitution, wrote in his 'Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments': "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." AND "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
Benjamin Franklin's Autobiography states: 'My parents had given me betimes religions impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself.' And in Dr. Priestley's Autobiography (an intimate friend of Franklin) he wrote of him: "It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers"
George Washinton, in a 1792 letter to Sir Edward Newenham wrote: 'Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.' Also, though Church going, he never once took Communion.
Need more examples?
-------------------------------------------
'However, they were smart enough not to create a system that would legally elevate any one dogma.'
And that elevation is exactly what has happened, with government-supported religious references, mottos, and Xian prayer today.
-------------------------------------------
"I'm sorry but I find this belief on your part ridiculous and somewhat bigoted. You don't see radical Xians moving in mass into Muslim dominated communities, like the ones in Michigan. Even in light of the fact that those Muslim Americans used their local government to get their daily prayers played over a loud speaker throughout the city.'
Firstly, this is a largely Muslim community, not exclusively Muslim, and they also are a larger segment of the religious community than we, and therefor enjoy a superior monetary and legal base. Also, please see
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/7/202004g.asp. Secondly, with the recent political atmosphere concerning that faith overseas, and the physical attacks here just after 9/11, no one is going to bother them. And lastly, the Muslim faith simply does not have the miasma of 'human sacrifice', 'devil worshiping', and 'witchcraft' attached to it, as it has so wrongly been associated with us. I think discussing the issue of a Wiccan community with the more radical of your fellow congregates might be revealing.
-------------------------------------------
"I disagree - it appeared when human secularists found strength in numbers and used the Courts to mandate their own unconstitutional religious views because they knew they didn't have the numbers to get any such changes passed through the Congress.'
Then would you mind sharing your opinion as to why our original motto was 'E Pluribus Unum' and our original Pledge of Allegiance did not contain '...under God'? Christians used their greater numbers, starting in the early 1830's, to accomplish their agenda, since your opposition does not have those numbers, we must resort to the legal system. Also, one subject that seems to be thrown to the wayside is that many of those 'secular humanists' you speak of, are Christians themselves.
------------------------------------------
"There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the government from supporting religion with or without taxpayer dollars. And you are now arguing that if someone says a 'religious' word it ceases to be speech? And such people who like to use religious words don't have the same right to free speech as people who like to use secular humanistic words? Wow!'
The First Amendment states, 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...', it has done just that, with the Coinage Act, and our Pledge. Doing this, they have established Christianity as the State Religion. And now who is twisting words? I make no reference to 'someone', my comments clearly state 'government'.
========================
We still await your quotes for your 'the Founders also recognized Jesus as Lord in the constitution' theory.
My Posts
60yrs • M • 
n i'm irish too
IT symbolizes the cross upside and broken as a mockery to Christ. 
How is this justice?? 
BUT I dont. 
