Is There Really Such A Thing As A Conservative? - Page 2

Using that logic - Hitler had integrity too - Hale Hitler

So its okay to be wrong if you have integrity - using such logic - you can make anything wrong, right, and make anything right, wrong.

Talk about brainwashed, look, the only things known about W. are bad, he is a fuck up in work and play.

His whole governorship in Texas was rife with failure spun as success through nearly if not illegal and fraudulent means.

The only thing people hold on to is this notion of moral righteousness which has come from the ether with a simple claim of being born again. Then all pasts be forgotten, that's brainwashed.

No one is a criminal untill they are caught.

His friendly social disposistion seems to be his only saving grace, perhaps he even has good intentions, in which case he is simply being puppeted for another cause.

You who undermine Bush's family and friend connections don't understand the good ol' boy system. Nor can you likely comprehend the reach of having family in government, CIA, and even as President, not to mention a myriad of Bank and Corporate connections.

Power, money, influence, and what Clinton lacked, secrecy and the ability to keep it that way.

"Using that logic - Hitler had integrity too - Hale Hitler "

LMAO - another Bush - Hitler comparison - how boring. And you are clearly ignorant about Hitler - the man was a proliferate liar - his private views were extremely different from what he said publicly on numerous matters.

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"Talk about brainwashed, look, the only things known about W. are bad, he is a fuck up in work and play. "

I can hear Dana Carvey saying 'Bush is bad BAD'

lmao

Leftood you are a really bad poster. You excel at making unsubstantiated accusations. Have you ever considered the possibility that you are the one that is brainwashed?

The sky is blue - but we can change that if we change the shade of glasses we are wearing.

This is what you're doing when you look at Bush

And Leftwood - I desigree, I think you're being to kind to Mr. Bush. The man lied, soldiers died, and that's a fact. That's the blue sky, that you Xris, with all your might and power, you refuse to open your eye lid to see. Its right there in front of your nose.

I don't believe he did it because he was a Republican or a neo. Some say oil had nothing to do with it. The fact is - He lied, soldiers died - thats that. You can't make one plus one equal three.

My brainwashing liberal hypocracy whatever had nothing to do with it. He did it, because he did an evil thing. The fact that he claimed to be a born again christian makes that evil even worse.

No even if I wear colored glasses the sky remains blue - your reasoning here again suggests your inability to understand logic.

And the truth is that Bush did not lie - the lies come from the likes of you and your anti-American leftwing allies and when you lie Osama, the Saudis and Al Qaeda cheer because they know you are helping them with their propaganda causes. You are nothing more than a wahhabi tool. In fact if you were an Al Qaeda agent I bet you would be saying about the same things. Unbelievable that you cant see this!

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And the truth is that Bush did not lie - the lies come from the likes of you and your anti-American leftwing allies and when you lie Osama, the Saudis and Al Qaeda cheer because they know you are helping them with their propaganda causes. You are nothing more than a wahhabi tool. In fact if you were an Al Qaeda agent I bet you would be saying about the same things. Unbelievable that you cant see this!

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Here we go again.

So there were wmd

Saddam did have something to do with 9/11

We went to war for a lie - As hard as that is for you to believe, its true - and Mr. Bush took us there. He knew it was lie, he was the first to know as president of the United States, he was briefed at the golf course, he decided to improve his golf swing instead.

"Leftood you are a really bad poster. You excel at making unsubstantiated accusations. Have you ever considered the possibility that you are the one that is brainwashed?"

Of course, I think everyone is brainwashed you arrogant fuck. Thats what I keep saying, we don't have access to the truth of anything. Your denial of this is your own undoing as well as that of our world.

What claim was I making, about his being Governor not being what people like you say it was?

http://www.bushpresident2004.com/bush-background-governor.htm

Just one of many articles like it. Right next to all the spin in the other direction.

But take comfort, you alone know everything already and everyone but you is simply brainwashed. Your mind alone is keen enough to know what "facts" and numbers are right or wrong. You have personally audited and been present in all cases of accusastion and slander to know the truth.

Bite a dick already, get a grip on the fact that you don't know shit, just like everybody else. And perhaps do something about it, rather than just proclaiming superiority on a debate website.

"So there were wmd"

As I have already proven to you - yes there were. Did we find the kind of stockpiles we thought we would - no. Do we know what happenned to those stockpiles? Absolutely not! Nor do you!

"Saddam did have something to do with 9/11 "

Bush never said he did! Thats just another lie from the pro-al qaeda crowd.

"Mr. Bush took us there. He knew it was lie"

He knew there were no WMD stockpiles? And yet he used it as an argument that he knew would proven false in a few months time just as he is trying to get re-elected? Are you really this stupid?

"Of course, I think everyone is brainwashed you arrogant fuck. Thats what I keep saying, we don't have access to the truth of anything. Your denial of this is your own undoing as well as that of our world. "

If you are brainwashed then please quit posting here because as you admit its just more brainwashed bullshit. ANd the one who doesnt know shit is you. You are an ignorant paranoid little fuck who is incapable of determining absolutely anything for yourself unless it is some cynical conspiracy which attacks something you hate.

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As I have already proven to you - yes there were. Did we find the kind of stockpiles we thought we would - no. Do we know what happenned to those stockpiles? Absolutely not! Nor do you!

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Those stock piles were found before the war and would have been destroyed as agreed, which was the purpose of the weapons inspectors finding them. Yes we do know what happened to them, the insurgents have them now.

The weapons inspectors asked us to secure these stockpiles as soon we got there, but as soon as we got there, we had more important things to do, like secure the oil wells.

We didn't go to war to get what the weapons inspectors already found, we went to war because we believed there was more than the weapons inpectors had not found. The head of the weapons inspector group felt guilty, feeling he had failed to prevent a war, so he commited suicide - do you remember all that. I'm sure Fox News covered it.

The inspectors didn't fail, because there wasn't anything else other than what they had found and taged and we lost.

If that is not true, then you can explain why the Bush Administration admitted that they were unable to find any wmd in december 2004, after the elections.

Geez, Dude!...Xris, once again you misinterpret my words...I do not blame Christians for acting in accordance with God's will...That's just plain silly and you know it...I simply said I do not believe they should sway government into forcing others to act in accordance to God's will, that's all...Acting in accordance with God's will is a matter of choice and much more meaningful to one's own personal faith...and probably more valued. Creating a governmen t with laws that impel others to behave like Christains will only result in creating an underworld or subculture of clandestine hippochrates....Not exactly what well-meaning Christians hope to accomplish, is it?...Anyway, this kind of dialogue is great, though...Don't you think?...Uh, well, you don't really have to answer that...chuckles.

Ok - you simply don't understand the specifics about what you are talking about. After the Gulf War the UN documented numerous stockpiles of WMDs. The UN documented some of their destruction. BUT to this day the UN does not know what happened to the remaining stockpiles. The danger is that Iraq would sell materials like cyclosarin to Al Qaeda agents or was in the process of creating new stockpiles. Saddam agreed to a transparent stockpile destruction and to not produce any more weapons materials. Saddam was not transparent and it was believed by every intelligence agency of every major nation and the UN to be working on new WMDs. The truth is he was in the process - he did attempt to purchase the necessary ingredients - he did refuse to abide by the numerous UN resolutions - he did kick the UN inspectors out of the nation - he did hide cyclosarin tipped missiles. He may have even transferred stockpiles to Syria - we don't know.

Iraq was a threat because he was mad enough to arm terrorist cells with wmd materials. Iraq was a threat because he refused to abide by the ceasefire agreement. After 9/11 many good Americans believe that such threats can no longer go unanswered - including many democrats like Lieberman and at the time even Kerry.

Xris - you were right - there were weapons found after the golf war that have since disappeared. There have been several explanations, one being shelf life. After a certain period of time they become nothing more than toxic substances and for health reasons should be properly disposed of, and this we believe has happened to most of it. For the small unaccounted for, there was rumor that Saddams own military discarded them - but they could have sold them too, which is most likely what they did.

However - none of the supposed WMD was ever a threat to the U.S., unless it would be brought over by hand, a threat that can certainly be controlled by proper boarder patrol and customs agents. Not enough threat for a war.

Al Qaeda and Saddam were enemies; Bin Laden did not like Saddam. Just because he visited there for a short time proves nothing. The 9/11 commission found no link.

If our objectives were to get rid of the weapons, the inspectors were doing a fine job - we should have let them finish.

If our objectives were to get rid of Saddam - which was already in the works, Russia almost had it finalized.

We rushed in there for one reason, and one reason only "OIL". The Bush family is connected with oil; Texas is all about oil. Their connections with Saudi Arabia are all about oil.

Since Nixon's time there has been a threat of an oil shortage, and now it is more real than ever. But before we turn the taps off and hydrogen, wind, sun, etc. on. Let's get top dollar for what we can first. So we won't tell people to stop driving SUVs or using natural gas, even though we know that it's not going to last. They knew, and they're not going to tell us or the world that we don't have to worry, we'll just go get Iraq's oil, which they've been planning for years. Instead, they just made up a bunch of Bs they knew people would believe.

And Xris - from reading some of your other posts, I know you're a good man. They knew they could and did play a joke on you, except its not real funny, its going to cost your children and grand children plenty.

It looks like you did some research into this - I'm glad

I don't know if it was sold, buried, destroyed or moved out of country. The problem was that Saddam was not transparent in his agreed destruction program. You are also probably right that it didn't represent that huge of a threat but I'm no expert there so I'm not sure. Where I disagree is that proper border patrol and custom agents could prevent it entering the country. Our borders are just too damn huge and Canada and Mexico do not make things easier. Plus incompetence best describes our current border control - there isn't enough agents and the laws aren't really in place that allows them to do a proper job.

After 9/11 we simply cant wait for a worse 9/11 - don't you agree? All terrorist sponsoring nations must inevitably be targeted and drastically changed. If we dont then the next 9/11 will involve the loss of hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives.

Iraq was chosen because it was the most logical place to follow Afghanistan - easy and quick with numerous peripheral benefits - like what we have been witnessing in the last month. Now look at a map and tell me what is inbetween Iraq and Afghanistan...? Yes Iran. We have them surrounded and there is a strategic reason for this and they know it. Ultimately they are a far greater threat than Iraq but also they are far more difficult to alter and far more powerful. Because of Iraq many hope that war with Iran may now be avoided.

"Al Qaeda and Saddam were enemies; Bin Laden did not like Saddam. Just because he visited there for a short time proves nothing. The 9/11 commission found no link"

I'm sorry but none of this is true. I don't blame you because the media based these claims on the 9/11 brief not the full document that was later released. Saddam and al qaeda were not enemies and in fact Saddam offered Osama amnesty in Iraq. There were numerous links found if you read the full 9/11 report.

"We rushed in there for one reason, and one reason only "OIL". The Bush family is connected with oil; Texas is all about oil. Their connections with Saudi Arabia are all about oil. "

This is what really makes me sad when I hear people say this because it is so far from the truth. Oil had absolutely nothing to do with war and everything to do with the Gulf War. Iraq is not a large supplier of oil to the US nor are most middle east nations - we mostly get our foreign oil from Mexico and Africa. Europe and Japan are the primary beneficiaries and they had a great deal going with Saddam which is why many opposed the war. Also we currently do not have a shortage of oil nor is there going to be one for the foreseeable future.

"And Xris - from reading some of your other posts, I know you're a good man. They knew they could and did play a joke on you, except its not real funny, its going to cost your children and grand children plenty."

Well thank you very much. However I do not believe that I am being duped. I am a political science and history major and I think it would be very hard for them to dupe me on these matters. I am not perfect so anything is possible but I think that what has happened is that people you respect, like John Kerry and Howard Dean, have been playing with your emotions and put you in a kind of state of fear and panic. I think their motives were to gain power however I doubt their methods would have been much different from Bush's had they been in office. Do you respect Joe Lieberman? I do and know he is a strong supporter of Bush's Iraq policy.

If we spent 87 billion on our borders, they would be secure. But with all the security in the world, we could never completely secure our borders. Likewise, you cannot have a war without fatalities. Nothing is perfect, and we can never have perfect security. Never did, don't, and never will, not now, not in twenty years, regardless of how the war goes in Iraq.

Al Qaeda was a small operation without a large following or a real popular cause - when we went to war. We gave them a popular cause and a large following, as they've almost doubled in size.

War should always be avoided at all cost. Your majors mean nothing to me, I listen those who have been there, especially, I listen to what several generals had to say about it. Did you really watch that tape? Somehow I don't believe you did, but if you did, then I would say to you - you to have studied.
http://www.captaincynic.com/The_Truth_About_the_Iraq_War.avi

But I could take the words of Chaney and bounce them against your words, and they would almost sound the same. You sound more like a perot then a studied person who has majors. We take what we learn and bounce it against our own experience, and it is evident that you and I have not lived the same life. You fight so hard for this dishonest administration, I would almost believe you were on the payroll.

How much must we take from the poor and needy to pay for the war machine before we decide our needy are too needy? How rich must our weapons manufacturers become before we decide that the rest of the capitalized world also deserves our dollars? How much non biodegradable toxins have to be released before we decide it is to much? How many have to die before we realize to many have died? Would it then be to late to say OOPS!.

I recently read an article about how the Vietnamese use motorcycles as if they were trucks. You know they have just managed to beat starvation in their country. It has taken them this long. We were told that we had to win that one also, or else communism would sweep across the whole world. But it didn't, just imagine if we hadn't stopped the war; it might be five or ten years from now before they were able to beat starvation in their country. We claimed to be helping make them free also. Are you free if you are hungry? Are you free if you are poisoned, etc, etc.

You did say you'd join the peace process if they started the draft. I will hold you to that. As for me, March 19th is a nation wide peace ralley against the Iraq war. It will even be held in Oklahoma City, and I'll be there, and so will my mother who lived through the Vietnam war, it will be a first for both of us.

This is true - MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. That money is in Sadie Arabia. If there is a devil, it is that, and its evil has a whole nation in its spell, and when this spell finally does wear off, I hope that the recovery will not be too difficult.