quote:
But we cannot overlook the fact that many of the reasons that these people have for hating us are based on biased opinions from radical muslim clerics who use relegion as an excuse to attack innocent civilians.
Indeed, it cannot be ignored, however, knowing exactly who is pushing whom and under what pretenses is far trickier then another such generaliztion as this.
Extremism and fundamentalism will always be, these killing of innocent civilians in Iraq by Iraqi's and any neighboring aid to insurgent violence was not taking place before the invasion, even though extremism and fundamentalism existed.
As for civilian casualties, this argument against muslims alone is rediculous and the most obvious (and obviously undernoted) sign of the manipulation of public information and therefore opinion. Not that I'm saying you are one sided, I'm making a general response to a common concern that I feel doesn't get near enough discussion but that you brought up.
(though I am curious about your opinion of civilian casualties caused by coalition forces, and if you think insurgents numbers of them are higher?)
I would guess it would take years for insurgents to catch up with the number of civilian casualties caused by coalition forces. Especially through bombings and materials used in battle that are either hidden or undermined in the media, such as D.U.
(And if you know anything about D.U. and its not bad, then you probably haven't listened to Dr. Rokke. The not so funny story about him is that he is was the retired General assigned to surmize the ill affects of D.U. usage upon clean up of Gulf 1. But when you hear the official stories printed in most media about it, its not a problem. But when you hear Rokke, suddenly its a ecological disaster with both immediate and devastating lasting affects with the potential of lasting 4.5 billion years. And if he is the official source, but the official story does not reflect his findings and declaration of importance, when he says he was told to lie, what does that tell you?)
Let him tell you himself if you're curious.
http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=34018-u-frmid=1 http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/uploads/rokke.28.ram http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/rokketwo28rm.ram http://sf.indymedia.org/uploads/rokkethree28.ram http://www.indybay.org/uploads/rokkefour28.ram The fact is you see and hear about civilian casualties that the "enemy" causes, and when it can't be ignored completely you'll hear coalition collatoral simply dismissed, its gonna happen, its messy, its war, its ok because we say so and because its us doing it.
I would bet we dropped more bombs in one hour than insurgents will manage in roadsides and suicide bombs (even their RPG's) for the entirety of the war. And ALL of these bombs kill civilians. Ours just kill more, because they are better at doing it, and there is just a shitload more of them.
And to further the point of the unfortunate situation, think about this, if you were a peasant farmer being invaded by a world superpower that you were defending against, what means would you employ, what means would you have available, they really only have one avenue of working defense, and they use it.
Honestly, though the hate and manipulation of arabs is a terrible problem, much more troubling is the hate and manipulation of the populous and power systems of the world's powerful elites.
Poser's points on racism are well founded, while his point of what they own is not, for he himself would argue that that is our life, free trade.
The racism issue, however, is highly one sided, segregation and the natural tendency to cling to like minds, races, etc. is no where near isolated to american arabs nor is it worthy of mention over any other race that does it, including of course whites.
(A point comparable to the point of terrorism and WMD threats from iraq in comparison to many other places, such as N. Korea etc.)
And the racism issue in regards to whose country this is doesn't hold up well either, unless you want to say America is for whites only (and of course this would have to be far more technical as well). We stole this place to begin with, and we didn't want anyone here, but we needed slaves and a working class and the ability to trade abroad, and eslaving the indians didn't work out so we have black slavery and immagration.
I don't know what he means by their abuse of freedom either, especially in comparison to any american abusing said freedom.
They want to come to live because they hear its better and we are busy blowing them up, for years and years.
I would think that the ones who don't want us here regardless are probably either manipulated fundamentals, or people with a good reason not to like us. But saying they don't want us here is a generalization as well which began this conversation because such statements are never accurate and only inflame.
Maybe now he knows what it feels like to be a minority in America.
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