The Problem of Evil - Page 11

If God does excist. Then the reason he created man is because he needed something to abuse.

I think there is a saying for that, something like..... Sad but......

Or was that just a Metallica song

Well, from what some have argued, our pain and suffering are probably good for us and necessary, like evil.

I'd love being able to slam them by saying something to the effect of, "So, even though God could let us understand anything we need to, he instead tortures and kills people to help them figure it out. Makes perfect sense to me."

But they don't grasp what they say when they say God is all powerful, or apparently what a contradiction is, so it just flies right over their head instead.

It would be unsatisfying if it weren't for the reminder that I live in a bad horror movie. Like when I see that glazed dowey eye'd look as words just stop making sense to them, that light goes on off recognizing "words of the devil", and then basically chanting starts, as they start quoting the bible on me or attacking me with accusastions as they feverishly scramble to keep their beliefs making sense in their head.

And do they ever realize that they act like cult members, I don't know.

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the reason he created man is because he needed something to abuse.

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Actually according to Judeo-Christian belief, GOD created this place [world. existence, etc.] to separate niyan (man) from the nigi (beast).

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Lose translation: niya => spirit; nagi => ghost,
these being 2 of the 4 aspects of soul.

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He sure picked a shitty way to go about it, and has a bad track record, which makes perfect sense an omnipotent being , not.

Like he would have to try, what a load of crap, IMO.

C-turtle - that means that before the universe was created, everything was in harmony, everything was in 'unity', there was a 'onness', and that onness was seprated with the creation of existance(universe). And that is the onness that many people strive to attain(enlighnment).
But why sperate everything. Why should God seperate Himself. So that 'souls' etc cud learn?

I think it wud be better if we just let go of 'why'. As time didn't exist back then, there was only that possible moment in which the universe cud have been created, so there's no question of 'why', there was no other option other then seperatness(creation of the universe)

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I think it wud be better if we just let go of 'why'.

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Excuse me if I give an answer that seems to diverge from your comments as I am not sure I understand your point fully.
On the whole I feel your arguements are valid preceptions.

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As time didn't exist back then

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The existence or nonexistence of time was a subject of a separate thread, for me that thread subject parallels to extent the thread on 'if a tree falls in the woods & if none hears the sound, does it make a sound?'
Science extends that the life resulted from primative elements forming randomly over an very extended period to form the living organisms of our world. They separate these into geological ages of the earth in which various forms of life were dominate. If time pass as they extend, then it existed?
So in order for there to be change, time must exist otherwise it would remain constant?

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He sure picked a shitty way to go about it, and has a bad track record, which makes perfect sense an omnipotent being

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Ya, I know what you mean by a rather crude if not rude example: I recently have been spending time with an autistic child (my son) after a long period of time after the state denined my access to him. To be honest, when it happened it really through me into a spin. Much later I came to find that I could supplement my need to love my son by opening my heart to others, forming an extended family.
Recent world events had started to close off those feelings toward my extended family because of my anger with these foolish ignorance (naive) children but seeking to answer (understand) my own child reminded me of their need. The lesson I had learned at great cost (heartache) was slipping from view as I became focused on him again.

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As time didn't exist back then

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What I meant by that was that time is dependant on matter, and since there was no matter before the universe, there must have been no time.

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I think it wud be better if we just let go of 'why'

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I was reffering to the question why did God create the universe. There is no question of why, the universe could only have been created at that 'particular moment', because of the absence of time, so with or withought God, the universe would have been created. Am I making sense yet?!

What does the reason 'why God created man' seem so important? Be happy with your existence, and God allows evil to occur because that's the ony way we will learn. It's like a Parent and a child, the parent can put down whatever rules, but it all depends on the child to choose. And being a passive and wise parent he will let the child learn by himself through personal experience. If they obtain that experience through hearing the first time, then everything will be good for them, but if they want to experience through feeling then it's much harder when the lesson is learned. Nothing bad has ever came from God, and nothin confusing either. Everything is simple but our minds corrupted with evil makes it confusing. We 'ARE' the devil, our seek for the knowledge of good and evil...self knowledge is killing us. If we look at just 'Being' what you are and not looking to know what you are then you can understand yourself. All this isn't new to you but it's the most confusing thing you've read through life. Simplicity is the most confusing thing to man because it's hard for you to let go of what you see and feel and experience with fullness what you don't.....<-that's when you can understand the motions of God.

"Nothing bad has ever came from God"

Another person giving man power over God, and again letting God off the hook for tragedy, suffering, and indeed Evil, the Devil etc. etc.

If God is the entity described by the Bible and most people, then God created absolutely everything and every condition in life. The second you dismiss that you alter what and who God is and limit his limitless power.

^^on the contrary my dear sir I have not limited anything of the almighty. I do agree with you tho, that what we consider to be bad came from all and the same place; the ever flowing goodness and light which is my creator.

What is evil? what is good? If I say everything is good then evil is only what you make of it. If I say then that evil is good then good is only what you make of it...right? Wrong doing is only what you as an individual percieve it is, and when you accept everything as wrong you can only be good.

Nothing bad comes from nature; which is the soul entity of who God is (you don't deny that do you?). Nature flows to build up what is lacking and destroys what is in abundance, therefore constantly regulating itself. So therfore Nature cannot hurt itself but only make itself better. Therefore nothing bad can come from nature. Like wise nothing bad can come from God.

Man is nature as well, and all things seem to live and die, so no, nature won't only improve itself.

And your points on good and bad are the same with most arguments of this nature, they are find for conceptual thinking, but the moment you step into the world and you realize we have kids in Iraq killing and torturing innocent and desperate people, and getting killed themselves and even killing eachother (friendly fire is usually the number 2 if not 1 killer of soldiers in war).

Once you see this and find the reason behind it, the conceptual argument now has a base, and sure, you could say oh its just natural or even god's plan, and that's what I meant when I referred to your contentment, not as personally content with yourself, but selfishly content in the face of ongoing tragedy and abuse of power.

The tsunami numbers are trying to reach only the number of children under the age of 5 that died in Iraq during our sanctions and as added result of the aftermath of 2 Iraq wars, and America was involved in both.

See, I cannot control or argue against the forces of nature, if that is what the Tsunami was, unfortunately when man, especially my government acting in my name becomes evil that is a different story.

And again, you could right it off as just God's plan, but then you help to condemn all those to horrible deaths and whatever is coming our way, and possibly judgement beyond this as well.

^^again i'm not happy with the way thing are....I'm not content at all, I truly dislike the power of man and the way that governments are stripping basic human rights, I dislike the way that to eat a descent meal in india means sacrificing your sanity. I was born in the Carribbean on an island of Dominica where it was fun to cook and eat lizards because you have nothing to eat....a place where I've seen little kids drink their own pee because they're thirsty.....percieving that I do not know tragedy is your gratest flaw. And again you're restricting God saying that he has a plan! If something has a plan then it has an end, God is unending.....I feel tragedy, I feel the tragedy which is man, Nothing has ever changed since the beginning of existence except man. And because man changed he subjected everything else to change Death is a part of nature just as life is a part of nature and nature is a part of the eternal being of God. To say that Death is Tragic is to also say that Life is Tragic, which it is until you come to the realization that all is beautiful!

God could stop it if he wanted to. But he doesn't want to. He created the Earth and all it's people to get entertainment. As long as there is evil there will be entertainment for God to get his jolies.

Actually it is the devil that wants peace. He wanted to punich the humans for being bad but God wouldn't because he wanted evil to continue.

All this and more in my book God VS. Devil

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Another person giving man power over God, and again letting God off the hook for tragedy, suffering, and indeed Evil, the Devil etc. etc.

If God is the entity described by the Bible and most people, then God created absolutely everything and every condition in life. The second you dismiss that you alter what and who God is and limit his limitless power.

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Firstly: it is mans fault that we see evil and suffering in this world "the wages of sin is death". Actually by Jesus coming into the world as a human and dying for us, is God letting us off the hook for our faults and bringing suffering and tragedy into this world!

Secondly: God gave us a free will. If God stepped in everytime we were about to cause someone pain or suffering, then we would not be really have free will would we?

Thirdly: Without God, the concept of good and evil is meaningless. They become opinions of man. Without some absolute standard, measuring good and evil is impossible and not even worth discussing!

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it is mans fault that we see evil and suffering in this world "the wages of sin is death".

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Bullshit. Man did not create pain, suffering, tragedy and death.

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Secondly: God gave us a free will. If God stepped in everytime we were about to cause someone pain or suffering, then we would not be really have free will would we?

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We are not the only sources of pain and suffering, in fact, most mass pain and suffering comes from, weather, drought, famine, hurricaines, tornados, floods, asteroids, DISEASE.

Sure, man is doing its damndest to catch up, but it never will, even with the annihilation of the entire earth.

And yes, man is a source, but God made man, in his image no less. And your point of free will is, like most who try so hard to argue for God and against man alone, lacking.

What is it lacking you ask? Free will, free will is an illusion, a half truth at best, we live in a world of circumstance, not controlled by man, but by God.

This circumstance dictates our way of life including the majority of how and why we interact with eachother as we do. Then, it attempts to be dictated even more by God through Bibles, and people's beliefs in how "God wants us to live" which is highly contradictory to the concept of free will, unless you are a blindly faithful moron who missed the logic bus.

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Without God, the concept of good and evil is meaningless. They become opinions of man. Without some absolute standard, measuring good and evil is impossible and not even worth discussing!

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Ah, the closest you've come to making sense. But again, since is the creator of "Good and Evil", not just a referee or tool of judgement as you would suggest, it is once again irrelevant even with the existance of God.

Hypocricy would then be the teaching of God, not faith and compassion. By making evil to test for good, one has been evil for making evil.

Blinded by "evil" or faith is still blind, making free will and any true path, (be it to god, heaven, peace, or just true enlightenment and the understanding of any of these concepts), irrelevant and unseeable.

Balance is not taught in most Bible based religion, therefore it stands no chance.

God's beautiful universe and planets with their automated systems of cleansing, growth, life and death, are indeed beautiful and magnificent, but they also cause endless pain suffering and death. This is balance.

God's natural disasters can be beautiful spectacles, but ferociously deadly. Man is natural, man is a natural disaster, powerful and majestic, yet dark, deceptive, and deadly as well.

We all live in light and dark, as no one lives only in light, night falls for us all, this is balance.

Even God was in the dark and alone, before he made light.