Subconscious - Page 2

First, the subconscious mind is a subject that most psychologists reject as unsubstantiated, therefore a useless subject altogether. Instead, psychologists refer to the unconscious mind and its intricacies. Next, to speculate about something, such as a subconscious mind, is a fruitless endeavor, since speculation is nothing less than arguments based on what is not substantiated. One cannot even establish a logical guideline with which to discuss something like the subconscious mind because it is a subject that must first be qualified with a definition that is universally acceptable.

DT is, therefore, being duely cautious, which is commendable.

i won't confuse personal experience or someone feeling compeled to try and contextualize views -inadequately i might add- with as many words as they can muster/

with the objective and all encompassing stance you have made clear

unconscious- not knowing or perceiving : not aware b : free from self-awareness, not marked by conscious thought, sensation, or feeling <unconscious motivation>

subconscious- existing in the mind but not immediately available to consciousness <a subconscious motive>

apples and oranges: ???

The unconscious mind is a universal truth that can be substantiated empirically. Is that too many words for you to understand? Let me break it down: We all sleep, dream, wake, and are affected by our sleep, such as the body healing itself. Something it would not be able to do effectively were the unconscious mind not at work...were we not sleeping. Can the subconscious mind be substantiated in the same manner? I don't think so.

quote:

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Can the subconscious mind be substantiated in the same manner?

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i don't know where it is documented. was given the information in psychology class...

a man was taking a placebo in affect for a case of cancer that was spreading and would "likely" kill him very soon.
he devoutly believed in the effectiveness of this miracle drug- as his doctor put it- and in a matter of weeks was shown to be free of any signs of tumors... coincidently, the man read a F.D.A. report that classified the pill as a fraud.

the cancer came back, this time more rapidly than it left to begin with... sometime later the doctor offered him a "new and improved version of the pill- guaranteed to have had all the kinks worked out.

the man went along with it- took the pills, recovered rapidly, read the new F.D.A. report that identified the new special ingredient as nothing more than distilled water and died sooner than a week later.

Repressed memories cannot even be substantiated by cognitive psychologists. Repressed memory is to the subconscious mind what the subconscious mind is to a computer hard drive. One cannot substantiate that there are repressed memories as one cannot substantiate that the subconscious mind is like a computer hard drive. One cannot even substantiate that normal semantic and long-term memories are stored like a computer hard drive stores memories.

That nice little story is a testimony of the power of suggestion that has nothing to do with a subconscious. If anything, it has more to do with the conscious, in fact one's hyper-vigilance.

1. i was not speaking, necessarily, about memories. (story just happened to be one) there are no more like it?

2. why are you comparing a computer's hard drive to the way my brain stores present moments passed?
a. do you tell the program where to be saved? do you tell your memory where to place these memories?
b. that is like me comparing light and darkness... i left out parts of a functioning process that is not necessarily "perceived"/

don't tests that are documented - such as that in my nice little story - form the grounds for any of that which you try and throw in my face?

I don't mean to be such an ass...well maybe... but we could run the gamut of research on the subject of subconscious like we could run the gamut of research on Big Bang, and find theories that are valid but not sound because they are not proveable.

I've never been in philosophical discussions with anyone that couldn't take the hard knocks. I mean, obviously you avoid criticizing the person, but his or her arguments are free game (i.e. One does not say that another makes no sense. Rather, one says that another's argument makes no sense, and that's fine so long as the person can validly explain why the other's argument makes no sense.)

I have yet to find where I've violated my own rule. If I have, then I will avoid doing it again. However, I will continue to criticize arguments where I see they need criticism.

likewise- ass-

pardon me for not taking your hard knocks

for questioning (obviously illegitimately) your refutation.

but your brain/hard drive comparrison (along your path of judgement) was as foolish as any one of my shortsighted comments/

Now you're just being unduly hard on yourself. Happy Thanksgiving. Don't get used to it, I'm only soft once.

*blinks*

Well, those comments didn't come from the subconscious, that's for sure.
I think I'm afraid of what could come from there!

Astrarte, let me get this straight, you have nothing at all that's constructive to offer, so you type an insult? Don't you have better things to do with your time? Maybe your other Britney Spears listening friends are off the phone and you can give them a buzz.