Hello from the Middle East

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Glad you made it over there! Besides being hot what do you think of it?

Em

I'm confused - boats don't float in sand?

Glad to hear that you are there and still safe. I hope that the good Lord keeps you safe so you can return home safely. I also want to thank you for being over there and keeping us here at home safe. I don't think that you military folks hear enough praise for what you are doing over there from folks here. If it weren't for you guys who knows where we would be. Keep up the good work and stay safe. Hope to hear from you again soon.

Scary - be safe - be careful. Stay in touch and share what you can.

Decius - I know that you only meant it as a joke to begin with, but you don't know.

If BMX says no he may never ever get to ever vote again and a whole slew of other benifits that you and I look forward to, but he'll always have to pay taxes. Its not fair. No one ever explains it all to you until after you sign those papers, even if they did you wouldn't believe it.

This is starting to look more and more like Vietnam every day.

On the one hand BMX wasnt conscripted so if its shit, well you signed on bucko.

On the other, thanks for doing your duty, your defending our ideals. You are out there to prove we're good decent people, don't disapoint the Iraqis.

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Are you saying the contract doesn't stipulate everything legally?

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I don't know if it may have changed, but when I joined. All the important stuff like that was on the back of your contract. They would have you sign the front of it. There's a whole lot of fine print back there that nobody bothers to tell you is there while they have you sign the front of it.

I think if BMX was there in Iraq to stop the threat of WMD from harming the states, we might see him a little differently. After Vietnam people threw bottles at us and called us names. After Desert Storm they had parades for us. I didn't think that was fair then and I don't think its fair now. BMX is not a bad person just because Bush was wrong. I believe that when BMX went it was believedl there was something to fight for, even Dumbteen wanted to go.

As a voting Democracy, collectivly, we are responsible for BMX, and if we don't want BMX in the Iraqi Desert, we need to work hard to ensure our elected officials understand our wants. Blaming BMX is a copout and I doubt you would fare any better if you were there yourself.

Well said kid. Never blame the men in the field, they need all the support we can give them.

A low-rank soldier is not made to think (out of the military context). The army is meant to be apolitical, this is obviously difficult for the high-ranking generals, but I see no reason to taint the rest of the army.

Of course there will be Abu-Ghraib type fuckups, but that's not the grunt's job to question. The grunt obeys, the general goes to the war-crimes tribunal. Discipline and obedience is a fundamental and essential part of the army, removing it will remove the army's ability to fight effectively.

When I was on our local fire dept. I was always told that if you feel that doing something is going to put you and/or someone else in danger to question it. I don't see where the military would be much different no matter what branch you are in or dealing with. Yes to a point a lower ranked person has to obey what their superiors tell them but there is still a line where that lower ranked person should be able to say "hey wait a minute. this is going to put us in harms way and I see this as a way of getting what needs to be done done and keep up out of harms way." If I am wrong in my thinking then I am very glad that I never joined the military and feel for those who have/will.

Em

"Thanks for stating the obvious."
If its so obvious take it into account. If soldiers start thinking when they're not supposed too, the military can't do what its made for. Your suggestion thus becomes pointless.

Em - Its the army, some danger is necessary. Of course there are some limits, torture being one of them. But I maintain that if the soldier wanted to think about legitimacy of his fight, and the legitimacy of his orders, he should have done that before joining.

Keep safe BMX.

*Edit*Forget about the stuff I deleted... I don't know why I bothered.

How is it that this is getting twisted so???

Decius - you called BMX a baby killer. He has not killed any babies, he has not been asked to kill any babies. He simply explained that he almost fired upon a child after being fired upon himself, explaining that it could have happened by accident and that he did not think it was fair that our troops in the field should be called baby killers. And you Decius called BMX a baby killer.

You're Wrong Decius and you should apologize, but you're not man enough to apologize, so instead you're going to twist this whole thing around. Meditate on it.

BMX is not a baby killer. I imagine if he was asked to kill a baby, he would dissagree. So why are we calling him a baby killer?

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urthermore, i am not aware if you were conscripted or not when you served, but I would never call a soldier a baby killer, or any other foul mouthed phrase unless I knew the nature of their mentality.

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Thankyou - It did kind of threw me by suprise - I assumed you were kidding so I didn't say anything at first.

I assume conscripted means in action. The answer is no. I somehow feel guilty because I didn't, as it was explained to me by a chaplian, the guilt has a lot to do with the way I grew up. But if I had been born five years earlier I would have been drafted into the army and been made a tunnel rat and be having nightmares today. I was in the military during Desert Storm, I was apart of a Mobile Utility Unit, we didn't end up deploying - but I was a total wreck the whole time. I remember me and my friends discussing it. We were wondering how we could kill someone who was being forced to fight. We didn't know if we could, luckily we didn't have to.

One of my major arguements with the peace protestors at that time was that we can't load a guilt complex on our soilders out there in the trenches. They can't think about stuff like that. Thinking like that will get you killed. Their future depends on they're every action. If they're not paying attention and make the wrong move, they could come home in a box. That is one theory that accounts for the large number of losses in Vietnam.

We need to support our troops by getting our elected officials to bring them home. I know Kerry says that he is not going to do that, but I happen to think he is lieing. They all lie. He's just saying that so people will vote for him. There's some real sick people. They think its good thing that people should die for nothing. Ofcourse, Kerry won't be able to bring them home right away. We goofed up, our mistake, now we're obligated, but I think he will imedeately work a way for our soldiers to start slowly coming home.

I think we will now start having peace in Iraq.

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Rebel Shi'ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr has ordered his militia to end attacks on U.S. and Iraqi government forces

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I don't like al-Sadr, but people listen to him, he's the one you got to deal with. It isn't for us to decide whats right or wrong for Iraq. We just need to secure the area and get out. The sooner, the better.

A-men

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Thankyou - It did kind of threw me by suprise -

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I was rather shocked by Decius comments too. They were out of context to (his) normal attitude shown in other posts. But he is correct about some who serve, in Nam reupping (signing for another 4 years) got you a bonus with nno taxes on it. A lot of guys were swayed to re-enlist for the money.

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But I maintain that if the soldier wanted to think about legitimacy of his fight, and the legitimacy of his orders, he should have done that before joining.

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What about those illegal orders; like shooting civilians or surrendering forces?
When the shit hits the fan some rather strange circumstances can arise which are not part of the unaware thinking of those who are signing a piece of paper & taking an oath, you are really not aware of what you have let yourselves in for especially when the bullets are whinning around you.