Existentialism - Page 3

We should define action and reaction first. I think between the two is the thought required. A reaction is something which happens naturally, more or less independant of your thought or even your will. An action is something which you bring upon yourself consciously, it requires thought and hints at free will.

So if you hit someone instinctively as a response to an attacker, it is a reation because it is thoughtless. Consciously not hitting someone is thus a 'negative action' willing yourself to *not* do something.

Note that not hitting in response could also be a reaction if for example, you are surprised and simply too stunned to do something (IE not doing something is thoughtless because you naturally do nothing).

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Perhaps, in any case we *know* and *feel* the difference between instinctive and thought. Between automatic and conscious.

Now perhaps we have no control, even on our conscious acts, BUT other people do. What I mean is that an instinct, a gut reaction and reflex to wack the guy who attacked you, no one can change that (or rather it is much more difficult).

A conscious act is different, for, what is it? It is one where your brain is going to analyze the situation and use its former experience (unlike with instinct). Thus a law, a previous mistake, a lesson from your dad will influence a conscious act, not a instinctive act.

Thus I think the division between conscious and instinctive acts is useful. The difference between them is not that the person controls the conscious acts, but it is that OTHER PEOPLE control those acts.

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I love this website. I just stumbled upon it today and can't stop 'reply'ing. Meditation can help connect you to the universe. The feeling of nothingness is a sense of peace and 'all is well'. Love, light, the universal principle is very quiet. The one term regarding 'successful' (whatever that means) meditation that I has always stuck with me was "the stillness between the breaths". It's that stillness that we're trying to connect to, what we're trying to carry into the rest of our lives. The stillness is where peace and freedom reside.

but dumbteen.. the other people hitting you can be there conciious caused "controlled" for whatever reason, and their instincts too... its just so much happens that we can not see everything all the factors that cause things so it looks and feels free tous..

and even if lets say there was some sort of scentific machine that can show us all the causes of everything around us, we still wounldnt see it all.. guess why... kinda obvious but want to see if you can guess.. by the way beutiful replay slleping wrath.. on last page about moral type "instinct" action.. i was just trying to think of how to replay then read that.. surprised your only 16, wish i started thinking thinking kinda like that then owell, do any of you guys write down your thoughts n theorys ? or and perhps do/make something out of them (such as movie, write book etc..)

Have you read Sarte? I didn't think his theory went like that. My enterpretation of the theory was "you are responsible for your own birth." Meaning that as soon as you realize your alive you are able to die. I guess I had some major disagreement with Sarte on that aspect but I get what he's saying. Just take responsibility don't be ignorant to your life. Exist. Off topic question. Have you ever seen the movie "The Waking Life?" I'd recommend it. Anyways Sarte criticizes Sigmund Freud because he didn't believe that the id, ego, or superego were responsible for our actions he believed that we are responsible for our actions. Pretty much he was saying wake the fu** up. Self awareness is key. Maybe my interpretation is all wrong but it makes sense to me.

I don't understand what you mean patape.

I am saying that within a conscious act, societies norms, your past experiences, whatever your parents taught you etc.. These have a much stronger effect.

Anyone who's been on a diet, been hooked to ciggies or struggled to get himself motivated to do something knows we are not free.

We think we are free because what we think we should do sometimes coincides with what we do.

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When I took Philosophy my prof explained existentialism and free will as something like this. Have you ever walked along the street and passed over a gutter as your carrying your keys or your wallet and thought about dropping them in. Sounds stupid like something you'd avoid at all cost but just the fact that it crossed your mind as an action you may take is free will. Or another example my prof gave was; driving down the highway your in a trance and the thought to swerve your car into the other lane of traffic crosses your mind. Now that I think about it these examples are kind of crazy but I guess I've experienced both thought processes.

man has free will- dont know
life is a series of choices- correct for majority, not for mystics or spiritual people
most choices result in negative outcomes- true for majority, again not so for mystics
humans are greedy and manipulative- true for majority, not so for(yup, you guessed it!) mystics and spiritual people.
some things are irrational withought explanation- only a small minority, like some unanswerable questions.


I'd like to make a reply to this. Mainly to the comment about mystics and spiritual people not being greedy...

What is your definition of greed? Is greed not the want of personal gain? Is it something that is only limited to the material world? To reach out, and try to feel the powers of any spiritual being, or diety, for your own personal gain, is that not greed? Greed, is wanting something, for your own self. Mystics, may not be materialistic, but they are greedy. Assuming that the supreme being, has an infinite amount of love, and life , or enlightenment to give to you, is irrational, and steming from greed, because now it is not just single person who is wanting
personal gain, but a huge group of them, collectively believing, that they alone deserve this enlightenment! How can you NOT see the greed in that...it may not be materialistic, but it stems from personal gain none the less, and is undenyable greed.

To jayne says,.. some sort of caused curiosity instinct makes you think of that (from so many factors such as tempting, cool contrast against a norm, through past expereince knowing consequences stimulation,etc.) and you not doing it can be caused by types of "moral" instincts that come with the brain.. its substances n actions.. so much going on it feels like everything we do is random, but its case we cant focus on what were doing at the same time as thinking doing it.. the unexpected (to us) occurances which were likely caused by right conditions n factors frm so many influences were caused immsure, just hard to study n hard to see.. i often top my self often and see how what i did was caused.. its so complex but i can see a link that its partly from memory's long term short, selcetiove atentions etc.. other than that i have another main theory which will take too long to write right now, mabe later..

If you pay attention your body is probably doing things unconcsiously all the time that you dont even realize...right now, you might be biteing your finger nails, shaking your foot, or clenching your jaw muscles...wheres the control in that? I want my body to die ...RIGHT NOW...i'm still alive...*shrugs*