Poverty

With all the debate recently for amending the United States Constitution in favor of recognizing marriage as a union between a man and woman, perhaps a more appropriate amendment should guarantee each citizen of the United States the right to food, clothing, shelter and medical care. Poverty is defined as the condition of being poor or lacking the necessary means of support to live or meet needs. Today we read of enormous corporate tax breaks, outsourcing of jobs overseas and outrageous salaries "earned" by athletes/entertainers. More recently came the revelation of the $200 billion dollars spent by the U.S. on the war in Iraq. In the meantime, the number of those in poverty continues to increase. The Old Testament of the Bible often makes references to the promised land flowing with milk and honey. All one has to do in this country is take a trip to the grocery story or department store and bear witness to the fact that if anywhere was close to exhibiting the characteristics of "the promised land", this country is it. Yet somehow we are still unable to meet the four basic needs every citizen has. Some would argue that this proposal is an extension of Socialism/Communism. Nothing could be further from the truth. Socialism/Communism is a political or economic theory in which community members own all property, resources, and the means of production, and control the distribution of goods. No one is suggesting the replacement of Capitalism; an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately owned, and prices are chiefly determined by open competition in a free market. What is being suggested is that in this land of surplus "milk and honey", there is absolutely no reason why the four basic needs of every U.S. citizen cannot be met. Some would argue that food stamps, thrift stores, public housing and medicaid already meet these needs but in the words of President John F. Kennedy, "this country is divided between those who have never had it so good and those who know we can do better". I think we can do better. Resolved, it shall be the right of every United States citizen (in order to further guarantee the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) to receive food, clothing, shelter and medical care that is adequate to meet their basic needs.

Push this sort of thing too far and you will end up European style welfare states. What does a welfare state mean? It means increasing bureaucracy, demogoguerie and most seriously, it means permanent economic slowdown.

If anything reduces a country's poverty it is wealth and a good healthy economy. Even unequally divided wealth, is better then being equally poor.

We should not tackle poverty by doling out money. Poverty should be dealt with by the government providing opportunities. That means the gov needs to provide training for these people (thus increasing the value and demand for their labour) or provide temporary jobs until they get a real one (I have some limited time frame in mind, to better motivate people to look for a a job).

The government must make sure that those willing to work, have work. It should not create a welfare system which is not only injust, but will be systematically abused (this happens in Europe at the citizen level, a person works on the black market AND receives welfare, and at the State level, Greece receives far more Euro-aid then it is entitled to).

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The point is, that money can be spent in a variety of ways, all of which sound better than a war in a Iraq.

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A friend & I were talking (debating) the space program.
My statements was the shuttle cost, how many would we need not if we had channeled that money to alternate energy? If you add the cost of the war,
we wouldn't need the oil?

Well the legitimacy of a war is another issue I think. Ultimately, when we elect a president, we endowe him with the authority to take away our money and spend it instead on what he deems worthy for the nation.

Of course GWBush arguably wasnt elected anyway.

I thought it was suppose to be a system of check & balances? Aren't tax expenditures to be ratified by Congress? Which is one reason why the president can't declare a state of war (Marines are president's police force,ie police actions), Congress was declare war (use) of armed forces of this nation?

I think instead of doubling the $300 for two years, they need to cut it in half. Why should I pay for someone to sit on their butt. The UN council on poverty wanted to visit the Harlem slums to see American poverty. Upon arrival, the African representatives asked, where are the slums. The US rep said right her. The African reps said this is how aour rich live (color TV's, Air Conditioning, car, etc). It's a matter of perspective.

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It's a matter of perspective.

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Yes , you are right about that I used to hate seeing this ad (commerial) for the movie 'Patton'. Him standing there saying how American love to war. But as much as I hate to admit it, it is true. Look at how many hundreds of billions we spent on this war (so far). Just the tip of the iceberger when you consider the amounts spent to promote the technologies of war, (WMD), not only nuclear weapons but chemical & biological but stealth & missiles, subs & aircraft carriers and the space program. We really love to make war & rule the world.

I see. So, as long as they are not slaughtering Americans than we should just keep to ourselves. Rule the world. Name one country we have conquered and kept? Ludicrous statement. Never has been a more powerful nation in the history of mankind that has done more good in the world than the USA. You can not negotiate when you are at a disadvantage. I can't believe there are still people who believe Bush was not elected. He had more votes in Florida! Period. The Supreme Courts 7-2 ruling said the Florida Supreme court decision was unconstitutional. 7-2! And, even if there were a recount, later counting says Bush STILL WOULD HAVE WON! What don't you understand about that. Just something to whine about I guess.

I must have missed the comment whinning about Bush being elected?
May be it is in another thread?
Let see, refresh the memory, seems in the mist of several motions coming together? 9-11, war in Afaganastan, extended to Iraq because?
Oh, ya the 'War on Terrorism'?
Is that blinders on your head or are those some kind of special glasses to see things we can't?
Hmm . . . some guy is beheaded in Iraq, hardly a bleep on the radar screen.
But then only his friends & family because he isn't there working for the government?
Then another guy gets beheaded, but in Sudia Arabia & he works for a defence subcontractor.
Oh, the president makes a statements about the lack of support of the Sudi's, not giving full support to target those responsible for such horrorific actions against 'innocent' bystanders!
Hmm . . . where was the rage when it was in the US held lands (Iraq) against a non combantant, non subcontractor employee?
But then what statement could he make about own regime?

Blinders, don't think so. Did Saddam pay 25,000 to the families of Palestinians who sadistically blew up Israeli women and children? Is this not supporting terrorism? Don't know what your reading, but I saw about the same amount of coverage on both beheadings and the same amount of rage. Saudi's are not in a good position. They can't crack down too hard or the rile their own, but on the other hand, if they don't, they are afraid of fundalentalist takeover. The royal family enjoys there position and it is a delicate balance. As far as Bush seleted, look at dumbteens response above on this thread.

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Don't know what your reading, but I saw about the same amount of coverage on both beheadings and the same amount of rage.

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I must of missed the persident bush's comments condemning the (US) Iraqian authorities.

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He had more votes in Florida! Period.

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Living in Floriad I can tell you that their were some very underhanded misdealing going on that never made the news.I know that ntional coverage doesn't carry the depth & details of local (biased) media did cover (up?)

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Did Saddam pay 25,000 to the families of Palestinians who sadistically blew up Israeli women and children?

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To start I don't think that Saddam was a good government leader but If the Iraq people choose to revolt & asked for UN or (US) intervention or support then liberating an oppressed people would hold a lot more conviction of truth instead of justification for our actions!

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Ultimately, when we elect a president, we endowe him with the authority to take away our money and spend it instead on what he deems worthy for the nation. . . .
Aren't tax expenditures to be ratified by Congress? Which is one reason why the president can't declare a state of war (Marines are president's police force,ie police actions)

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By the way I spent 4 years in the Marines. That how I know that little bit of history of the Corp. I was a member of the President's Own [Army].

cturtle, ....never mind, I see you live in FL, nuff said.

The votes were watched not by just a republican, but by an independent and a democrat...so how did the independent and the democrat let the republican make votes appear??
OR disappear??

The number of votes were recorded and then counted.
Those who had 2 votes on were thrown out..now mind you....who do you suggest a dbl vote go to?


Ok, poverty sux, and the government gives aid to the poor.

Same token friends....the 'drug' offenders make use of the money and food stamps.
SO...instead of cracking down on these ppl...they are giving free money to those who ARE CRIMINALS.

AND women who live with men. Men pay the bills, and the women go to the welfare office.

The small percent of ppl who live alone in federally paid for housing and food stamps..(Card now) and welfare check without OUTSIDE assistance is just amazing. AND rare.

The welfare system is completely scammed on.
Able bodied folks sitting at home soaking off disability...also amazing.

The gov takes more and more taxes off everyone else to fund these scams.

The necessity of welfare is for a certain time until you are able to move ahead..BUT folks take full advantage of it...and use it...and the gov OWNS them....lock stock and vote!!

This is not progressive, and sloth in nature.

I see you mentioned women...it is the women ...but they live with men unmarried, and arent living all that badly.

Since we cannot get data on this...or the welfare program would break down...
I can tell you that I know of alot of women and men who do this....!!

Government does NOT owe the ppl... The ppl are paying the taxation to aid the ppl.
Gov is just laws and legislation.

BTW... are you saying we dont need to pay military and keep defense??

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cturtle, ....never mind, I see you live in FL, nuff said.

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Ya, I know what ya mean driving to a friends, listening to the local station after three hours on the road.
Radio gives out traffic update ( its raining) ah . . take care the clown moble ( Bush motorcade) is in the vincinity; then a commerical.
The advertisement was far more interesting although it was half over before I started to pay attention to what was being said.
I don't know who is or has done this but the ad was to contractors saying that resent changes would cause work stop orders if they were not in compliance:
That they had to secure incorporation papers?
[No sole propriotor and partnerships allowed gist of the ad?]
Couldn't berlieve what I was hearing so I asked friend when we were talking:
said ya, anyone who does not form incorporation is foolish.
I can remember when there were people usually lived their whole life with No higher need than their word . . . integerty an obsolete concept, archaic term

The trouble with welfare is partially that it is abused by individuals. But also, amazingly, large wealthy corporations get bundles of money under the guise of farmer subsidies.

most farming have become more of corporate organization than farming to a large extend.