A Liberal against immigration

Is this a form of blasphemy?
If some conservatives can be pro-abortion then why can't I be anti-immigration? What law states that one must conform to every issue of ones political affiliation?

The subject came up on another thread, so I thought this might be an interesting topic.

I know about the 'melting pot', "gives us your poor" and all that. I am not a racist, so please don't go there. My reasons for being an anti-immigrant are similar to the reasons that arose at the recent Sierra Club elections. Dwindling resources are my main concern.

Anyone ever listen to Michael Savage? The man is an incoherent baboon 99% of the time. Ironically the only thing I've ever agreed with him on is immigration. I did not vote for Bush, but what I'd hoped for after the election was a change in the immigration policy. I thought that staunch supporters like Savage would help bring about this change. Afterall, changing the policy has been a social slogan of the conservatives for quite some time.

After 9/11, I'd hoped that Bush would've changed the policy. Dwindling resources was still a concern, but the attack and threats were paramount. Nobody would have blamed him if he had eliminated immigration, legal or otherwise.

Neither party seems willing to even entertain the suggestion. Not in our lifetime, but eventually over population will cause drastic measures. We should soften the impact, the sooner the better.

Dwingdling resources?
You don't need resources to be a viable country. Look at Germany and Japan, the Netherlands or Finland.
They have nothing in terms of resources and have at times done better then the US in terms of GNP/capita.

What you DO need is young blood. Western Europe is learning this, its old and decaying. Which is why the EU has expanded, now enthusiastic young poles, czechs and balts will come and energize western Europe.

A growing population is the only way the US will be able to compete with China in the future.

I keep offering to trade with someone from the EU but can't get any takers. I hope that immigration/emmigration becomes a thing of the past as borders disolve and we are free to move/live/work anywhere. Pipe dream? Pass the pipe, please.

[I hope that immigration/emmigration becomes a thing of the past as borders disolve and we are free to move/live/work anywhere.]

We do this now. There are people coming to CA from all over the country. There are too many New Yorkers here already!!! I dunno, ever been to Mexico or Canada? Canadians pay too much tax, Mexicans money ain't worth doodley squat. Unless we can convince these countries, or how about the whole Western Hempishpere, to convert to the dollar.....?

Yeah Europe has a good idea, but there are problems brewiing. Germany is losing jobs to Poland and the Baltic states. (Source: NPR)

Yes dwindling resources. We provide much of the resources that Europe requires. We do need resources to be viable because we supply the world. That is our job, supplier.

Guys, the population of the world in the year 1900 was 1 billion. It took mankind what, 3.5 million years to reach this number? In 100 years we've grown to over 6.5 billion. The damage we've done to this planet in that short of time is immense. The next 100 years will only get worse if we do not control the population, and use renewable resources. And since nobody has the balls to tell the woman from Alabama to stop after her 15th child, borders must be closed.

"Yeah Europe has a good idea, but there are problems brewiing. Germany is losing jobs to Poland and the Baltic states. (Source: NPR)"
No biggy, Europe NEEDS young blood. The population is getting older, there is going to be a social security crash unless eastern europeans, turks and arabs form a new younger generation.

"Yes dwindling resources. We provide much of the resources that Europe requires. We do need resources to be viable because we supply the world. That is our job, supplier."
Ahem. America consumes more then it produces, I don't how you could provide much for Europe. The only dwindling resources are fossil fuels. And they say they will last for a good while still. Besides, how does stopping people from entering the country stop the problem?

" And since nobody has the balls to tell the woman from Alabama to stop after her 15th child, borders must be closed."
First of all, that's not going to solve anything.

Secondly, the fucked up places of the world are not overpopulated. China is fine, India is OK, Japan is fine, Europe is fine. The overpopulated areas are fine. The messed up areas are in the vast and relatively empty areas in the middle-east and subsaharan africa.

I see no major problem caused by large populations. Producing enough food is ultimately not a problem, the only problem could be fossil fuels.

Remember, today's economies are practically only service-based. This means people produce their own wealth with little need for resources or land.

Because, remember, the divisions of nations are arbitrary anyway. So apart from linguistic problems, there's no reason a border-free area would work less well then a isolationist nation (isolationism practically destroyed the US economy in the 1930s)

So I guess my last paragraph doesn't alarm you?

[China is fine, India is OK, Japan is fine, Europe is fine. ]

Did you know that China has limited the amount of children to 2 per couple? India has always had a caste system, and Japan buys alot of their raw materials from us. I've been to all 3 of these countries. It's literally wall to wall people. And much of the raw materials they need for manufacturing comes from other countries.

They may be "fine" now, but imagine 100 years from now. In 2+ generations (I'll be dead, you'll be an old man) the worlds population will reach nearly 12 billion. If we are to remain as a separate nation with continuing capabilities, then we must control the population.


[Remember, today's economies are practically only service-based. This means people produce their own wealth with little need for resources or land.]

Coal, wood products, iron ore, synthetics, agricultural food products, chemicals, plastics, minerals. I'm not sure what book you're reading from. We're the leading supplier of combined raw materials to the world.

Also, isolationism kept us out of WWII until Pearl Harbor. It had nothing to do with the Great Depression.

" It had nothing to do with the Great Depression."
It had everything to do. Lack of markets for the US to expand into caused a lack of demand, hence overproduction etc...

Secondly, of course Japan imports its resources. But there are huge amounts of resources left (Canada, China, North Sea). And with either alternative energy sources (or nuclear) or genetically modified organisms, I don't see the problem.
Especially as develloped nation's populations have all practically stopped growing. If the huge population is the problem, then they need to get rich so they start humping like rabbits.

If you disagreement with immigration or emmigration or any other form of movment between countrys is dwindling resources then dont blame the immigrants , emmigrants etc, dont blame the people of the countrys with "dwindling resources". If managed properley a country no matter the population size or richness of its resources can funtion and prosper. The more people, the more workers, the more workers the more taxes paid,. With remarks to benifits and schemes they need to be properly organized and distriputed. Like dumb teen said in the ways of finland and other countrys with "dwindling resources" they sometimes have a fgreater economy than major world countrys. The worlds mass can provide and support probaly 10 times the human poputlation of the earth, it can t if people limit the world and divide into countrys, states, districts areas and whater ever else. All thats really needed is better planningand organisation , not mention opptimism and support lol

With the import/export market being what it is today, does it really matter where anyone eats dinner or buys his car? Will a young Pole eat more in France? Resources, renewable or not, will continue to dwindle at exactly the same rate because consumption will continue to rise no matter where that young Pole lives or works. Immigration may change imports and exports but little else. There is room for everyone so far. Many people want to go to live and work where it is sunny and glamorous. As those places become crowded, those that prefer the mountains will move out, etc. Immigration does not alter the population of the world, just its deployment. If someone has the means of getting somewhere they should be allowed to go without hinderance. When one place gets to be wall-to-wall people, those people will look for places where the walls aren't so pervasive.

Squatteam with your idea of forgettin the matter of borders, would you agree with thsoe who think there should be just one world country, ( i have no opinion on it myself) where people can go where they like with out need of passports and all that.

Imigrants are good for the country

they built America
with out the irish,chinese there wouldnt have been such a speedy thrust in the west in the 1800s
with out the italians , eastern European jews, british,Russians and mexican, most of America (including some of you on this thread) wouldnt have been born. imigration is good economicaly too!
A little economics lesson for those who dont know the more workers you have the higher the GDP! The only problem Imigrants create is WELFARE so to grow the GDP(and get some lazy asses of their armchairs) ,stop giving away money and keeping people poor let them try to make their Own living.


and cut TAXES!!!(the world would be a better place)