Creation or Evolution?

I've been wondering of late about the Creation/Evolution argument. I believe in evolution, but what does that say about Christ? Where does that leave the whole God/human thing? Does believing in evolution negate the redemption angle? I have no problem believing in God. Don't ask me how God got here, but that is secondary to the question: "Well, if not God, how did the universe get here?" My problem comes in seeing the evidence of evolution all around me - especially in my children. But, then where does that leave the story of Jesus as our Savior? For all the bad things humans have done throughout history, the bible doesn't offer many examples of divine intervention. So what could Adam have done to get voted off American Idol and get our collective asses in a sling? Sorry, I don't see it. Unless...Adam could have considered converting to Islam...hmmm...

Adam ate of the forbidden fruit. OK, so what?
Well after eating it, GOD comes along & they go playing hide & seek.
Then GOD calls Adam & adam tries to decieve GOD, I am nake!
Like he wasn't all along? GOD hadn't been offended before, right?
GOD says How do you know that you are naked? Caught in a deception which he compounds by blaming Eve.
She made me do it! Eve twisted his arm after throwing him to the ground & forced it down his throat, right?
Say the fruit of the tree of eternal life was right there, why didn't he eat of it?
Because he thought he could get GOD's power by eating of the tree of knowledge?
He tried to usurp GOD's Authority.
So GOD gave him clothes to cover over his shame!
Interestingly NA Tradition has a similar tale but in it the clothes are skin.
(human form?)

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If evolution is the only view of life, then there is little reason to look back to an ancient culture for wisdom and insight. According to evolutionary theory, everything old is primitive. If, on the other hand, we come to know that before this great evolution of ours, there was a great involution into matter, then there is much to be learned from looking back. This is why ancient Egypt is worth studying. Its picture stories contain remnants from an important time in the lives of our souls.
As souls, not physical humans, we descended from higher realms and higher states of consciousness during an involution into matter. As we separated from the higher realms, we gradually lost consciousness of them, focusing increasingly on this physical dimension.

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You might find this to be fascinating. Its just an excerpt. I don't know if you can read the whole thing without being a member or not.

http://www.edgarcayce.org/ps2/mysticism_god_godlings.html

" According to evolutionary theory, everything old is primitive."
No, evolution is not a finalist theory. It doesn't claim that evolution is going in one direction toward... TADA! Humans as if we're more 'advanced' then what came before us.

Well, that is dependent upon whose Traditional accounting you are want to discuss?These quotes are from the linked site provided by OkCity.

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Our souls have traveled throughout the cosmos from the beginning of creation. Many of us, our souls, went through the initiations of these ancient mystery schools and temples during the thousands of years of descent into matter.

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This is one of the great aspects of this new era we are entering, an awakening -- an awakening like none other, where whole groups of souls rise to a more universal, eternal view of life, past and future.

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NA Tradition of Lakota given in 'When the People laughed at the Moon' give inappropiate social behavior as the cause of their fall in status. Mankind was brought into this realm as companions of these lesser beings.

quote:

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As souls, not physical humans, we descended from higher realms and higher states of consciousness during an involution into matter. As we separated from the higher realms, we gradually lost consciousness of them, focusing increasingly on this physical dimension.

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This reminds me of a baby.
Babies, and I speak from 4 x's the experience, are closer to God.
Everyone of my children before age 2, could say God....and point to the top of the church from within the church....and say God....
And another thing I did find absolutely amazing, was when they would see a picture of the Last Supper..and they would point at Judas and say..."Bad"...and cry.
I kid you not....my babies each did these things. And saying God very distinctly even before they could talk.
Jesus was another thing they said...
I would just look where they pointed and always wondered....how could they know these things?

My one child would sit in my arms and with his eyes, just watch 'something' around him, and he would smile and giggle, and just keep his eyes following someone or something..I could not see.

Ponderous.

I've read about it, but I've not really read the book, it's on my list, but I thought I would throw it up here as another point of view. It is a very interesting idea.

Patrish- first off, i do believe children are closer to god. but you strike me as the type of person who most likely discusses god and religion quite frequently. wouldnt it be natural for your children to pick up on that sort of thing? my family seems to be "food people" ... my first word was "juice" and i said it long before i started "talking." i knew exactly where the juice came from and when the appropriate time to ask for it was. it was simply a natural thing because food is a frequent topic of discussion in my home. also, doesnt Judas look a bit strange anyway?

sorry its kind of off topic... i am very much on the fence about evolution, i think its very possible and even probable... but i really just cant say for certain either way.

whales have a much more advanced system of communications, and their ability to navigate is exceptional. Elephants have a photographic memory. We are not the most intelegent, strongest, or most feared animal on this earth, but yet we rule this earth (poorly) like no other animal.

I have yet to be able to put my finger on just what it is about us that is different than other animals. I could be wrong, as I've not studied it, but I don't believe other animals believe there is a God. Killer whales do posses social community behavior like us, but yet, one gang of killer whales has not ever waged war with another gang of killer whales that I'm aware of. We are different. What makes us different I'm not really sure, but we are different that I am sure.

As far as evolution goes. Yes, ofcourse. And creationism, why not? Why do evolutionists and creationists argue. Why can't it be both? Why is it difficult to believe that God created evolution, and thereby is our creator.

Evolution or creation, we are very different then the other animals of this earth, but I'm not sure how, it puzzles me.

Wyote - what patrish said about her children went right over my head. Had a blond moment there, good catch.

Edgar Cyce's theory is that our spirits created a soul that would inhabit an animal. The animal had to evolve inorder to be a vessel for this soul. So our spirit worked on this and the process took thousands of years.

I've only read a brief of the theory and not the whole book. But this thoery goes along with my belief that we are saten. The fallen angel cast down onto earth. That fallen angel being the false god of the gnostics was the creator of the body and the soul. What exactly happened to this spirit, or possibly this spirit is apart of us now, I do not know (I need to read that book). This does not however make creationism false. God is the creator of the spirit, and this spirit has created us. Indirictly, God is our creator.

Now, if this all seems far fetched. Think about evolution or creationism. They are both also far fetched ideas, we're just used to hearing them and believe them because they are both plausable.

Friend Raven & I used to spend time debating (bouncing ideas) between ourselves. The main exceptions would be in defining terms about 'how mankind came into being', our conceptual vehicle was basically biblical referenced.
God created the heavens & the earth & seas, then plant & animal life. Which is basic to the theory of evolution, era's of life form types were the essential for developemnet of life (evolution). Early plant life produced the ingredients for oil deposits we use today, etc. The heavens is not so much the
universe (stars & planets, glalaxies) we see but is domain of the spiritual realm as well.
God created man from the dust of the earth (basic protein forms of DNA, which is similar in all physical life), forming the Anciet World.
The spirit realm being divided into light / dark (angels) spiritual beings were exiled into the earthly realm were they found physical beings (animal & man). Spiritual being aren't corporeal so they entered into corporeal beings (animals & man) to be able to directly function in this physical realm.
Man, being the most advance & having a longer life time became the the primary form in which spirit would union by intertwinging the phyiscal & spiritual body binding into human life cycle.
Then the Tower of Babel & the Great Flood ended (changed) the physical world ensnaring this form of existence for the purpose of rendering (changing the spirit), evolving man.
Just a bit of babeling, bouncing thoughts off each other to while away the hours.

['how mankind came into being', our conceptual vehicle was basically biblical referenced.]

Does the bible say anything about dinosaurs? Jesus ponies?
I find it funny that there is not one reference of dinosaurs in any of the discussions. This proves that humans are so engrossed in their own self importance that nearly 1 billion years of life is erased.

A comic once said, "If you dont' believe in evolution, then what are you using in your cars?" Fossil fuels of course.

Ya, I can remember when they taught the worlds oil supply came from the dinosaurs? I guess when they start accounting the size of the oil deposits, they revsed their thinking atributing it to the plant life which was so abundant.
I wonder today's plants use carbon dioxide, so if these earlier species of plants did then they needed dinosaurs to balance the ecosystem (suppliers of carbon dioxide, exchanging oxygen)?

Ya know, I Live in Kansas....Here we have 2 major events...Brown V Board of Edu...and the Evolution/Creation theory...the latter very debatable...I'm proud to say that I was taught in my High School about Evolution Theory. Personally I see God as every one of us. A spark of his Creation in everyone...no matter how much we hate or love other people. At the same time, I also belive Darwin, survival of the fitest. Adaptablity through Evolution...Anymore I don't know what to belive but Both. Why can't you have your cake and eat it too??? I don't mean to sound all rude and all, but sometimes I think God and all the other stuff reguarding Jesus doesn't even exist. Jesus was Black, this I strongly agree with. Sorry, nother thread could start on that one. I think that both can co-exist. Why can't God have created something to Evolve? We certainly Evolved from something...Rather it be Apes, but maybe that was the Big Guy's plan after all. Maybe he let us grow and evolve so we can see what he truely means for us to see. That he is everywhere and everything within us and outside of us. Maybe just maybe Darwin saw everything clearly. Its just our Human Nature to question and rationalize everything now-a-days. I'm not too sure. But in my opinion...we were Created and Evolved.

I think at least in part the problem most readily occurs with the preception of God. Most religious thinking wants God to be human. Not only do they conceive God's acts as relative to human acts but the being, God is a human being!

Which is illogical concept even in light of the teachings of the Bible? If God created both heavens & earth, then how could God be a human being? GOD's existence is separate from His Creation, what is God a human form floating within the void?

Most contend that God made man in his own image!
So I say 'Yes, GOD gave Man a Soul, His Image'.
They have a hard time because they want God to be human & then wonder why they end up in some paradox while trying to apply what is taught in their Bible.

[.Anymore I don't know what to belive but Both. Why can't you have your cake and eat it too???]

Of course you can. There are many scientist who are creationist. They cannot discredit the fact of 1 billion years of life before man, at the same time they believe in creation via God or gods. Enjoy your cake.