Religion has history - Page 2

No, there haven't been any WMDs for years. Saddam snookered Bush but didn't think he'd get caught out. BTW, why didn't we find all the "Saddam doubles" that Bush/Fleischer told us about? If I'd have been one, I'd have come running out waving a white flag at the troops and saying 'it ain't me, I'm just a copy!' Remember the day after the war started, the BIG debate over the "look-alike" wearing the glasses and having the large mole on his left cheek? "That wasn't Saddam, it was a double. We still can't confirm that Saddam survived the bombing of his house." (Ari Fleischer - White House Spokesman {read: official liar})

Funny thing but I was watching some report about Security at Nuclear Weapons Factories! I thought about it, we must have to quite regularly replace al those nukes because the radiation causes them to deteriate faster than conventional bombs?
So we continue to make bombs & piss and bitch because other countries try to develope such capacity for the sake of their own sovernty?
Oh well, just another lie. Give it a break!
We still are handing out nukes to friendly countries & not saying a word about those whom we support or supporting our ways!
Misrepresentation, deciet and outright Lies, the Great American Way?

We make a habit of supporting the wrong guy around the world. Ho Chi Minh was an American agent in the Secret Service in WWII, Castro got his law degree at Harvard and was a frequent guest on talk shows during the revolution against Batista when we started sending him (Castro) arms, we installed Noriega, armed the Shah of Iran, Lebanon and Israel against each other. We are making promises to Syria as we sit here so we can go on and on and on. It will never end because no politician ever risks changing what is in place, they just promise not to make the same mistake again.

A bit of trivia I learned just today....

DID you know, that in the past 3400 years, there was 277 years of peace on earth.
And that 8000 peace treaties were signed, and broken....in that same time....

Did anyone know this?

So....although peace on earth would be grand....I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE.

interesting so when was those 277 years?
What did they count up the dazes after the wars?

Let it be on earth as it is in heaven. Impossible or not, Jesus taught us to pray for it. And we shouldn't ask for anything we're not willing to work for.

To accomplish peace we need to live by two tenets:
1. Live and let live, and
2. Turn the other cheek (and I don't mean 'moon' them).

Peace isn't Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Buddist or anything else except human. Unfortunately, we can't seem to get over the uniform thing - I wear the uniform of my place in society, you wear yours. If mine is different, I probably want you to have one too. The American way is to strip the other naked and force them into our uniform. It is the Christian way. Government (and religion) was designed to keep people in line. You do that by moving the fringe element in to the center - homogenizing it into one group. You always have fringe groups, but the more homogenized the society becomes, the less dangerous the fringes are. Unfortunately, the homogenization of the world isn't happening for the world, but for individual nations with individual ideas about what that central 'pool' should be. We've splintered Christianity and are trying to bring it back together, even the Muslims are splintered. God, in his infinite wisdom, gave our distinct cultures distinct ideas. I don't want a Islam-diluted Christianity any more than the Muslims want a Christian-diluted Islam. Unfortunately, some of us don't want the other religion to exist. Logical isn't it, 'I want to save you from your decision!' Religion, government, all the same when it comes down to war.

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The American way is to strip the other naked and force them into our uniform. It is the Christian way.

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Actually no it is not the Christian Way.
In fact it is opposite to the teachings of Christ.
Otherwise I pretty much agree with you.

Well forced conversions were very common for early christians (norway, russia in particular..)

The average person does not have basic common sense. It's true, awfull but true. We learn by observation or making the mistake ourselves. It is imature, yet a very common belief that everyone else needs to see things like I do. If you are Islam, everone needs to be Islam, if you are Christian, everyone needs to be Christian. If you are a democracy, everyone needs to be a democracy. And if you're whatever the Arab world is, so should the rest of the world be. This is an imature yet very common way of thinking. How do we change that? I don't know.

It would be so simple if there was a fruit, and once you ate of it, you knew the truth. Everyone could eat this fruit and agree with eachother all having the same truth. Because there is only one truth. But you know what would happen, people would eat that fruit and die. Do you know why? Because there just aint enough room in our little heads for all that truth. So we all know a small peice of it. What we should be doing is sharing with one another. But instead what we do is. "I have the truth, and you do not." And so we don't all get the truth, because we won't listen to what another person has to share.

have to agree with ya, OkCity, as I am jaded by trying to reason with them. May be you can help me understand? Look at the past comments & you will find the same statement Christians did this & that. So I say, did Jesus teach that?
No o o Jesus didn't.
Is Jesus the Way?
Yes, then they are not part of the way?
Then why call them Christian?
Because they call themselves Christian?
Hey, they lie! So why promote their lie by accepting it?
Because Jesus is a lie?

(I'm starting to sound like a philosopher) We take a piece of truth and we role it up with a bunch of our own ideas and beliefs until sometimes the real truth is hard to find. Life takes us around a big circle and we come back again to that simple truth we began with.

Anyways - I thought you were a Christian? I was getting along with Dreamer ok until he started the war thing. I wished he didnt go there, he didn't know what he was talking about.

I remember my protestant layleader friend when I was aboard ship. He was a follower of Jesus. A very good man, a much better man then me. Sometimes you meet them, the true christians. And if you read some of the stuff on Iraq.net. Terrorists are referred to as Islamic wanta be's. I try to do my best to sort out the wheat from the chaf, and sometimes I get them mixed up. But like someone else said, I stopped following religion and started following God. I like that, that is really good.

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we might need tp check out the history of where and how Nebuchadnezzar kept his army tools. How he defeated so many nations. (See Kings, and psalms and Exodus....)
And how he was a great and evil conqueror in his times.

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Not being a historical geek, my reading is limited to those you gave as reference. So if memory serves right, the usual cause (rise of wealth & power) had lead Israel to fall into apostesy. Forsakening their convenant with GOD. Leading to their being desolated by a rising power, in this case Babylonians. The tale centers like many that follow on how by adherence to GOD's Covenant lead to rise of prestiege & position (power) by submission to GOD's Law (moral & ethical code). Central figure Daniel who as given is taken captive (Book of Daniel) & brought before the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzer. Being from an upper class educated family, he served in the Royal Court. (common through out history is the intelligence & education of Hebrew {Prophets} & adhering to GOD's Law{glorifing GOD}) eventually lead them to asume positons of power.
Lookiing at Egypt and Joseph, (Genesis) one find the same cause & effect in operation. In this case, Joseph is sold into slavery by His brothers then rises into a position of Trust & power by which his brothers (family) are given into His hands.

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Although Jewish religion was acceptable to Roman government & were not compelled to worship the emperor as god.Those Christians, who held to their faith were tortured & executed in the arena.

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http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=23844-u-frmid=17

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It's called Roman Catholic because it started in Rome. The church did not start in Rome.

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It is called Roman because it was started in the Roman Empire after the persecution of Christians.

One could note that the Hebrew Tradition would probably given (Christian=>Hebrew in reference to previous comment) these facts this kind of interpetation?
That the Persecution of GOD's Children had brought GOD's wrath upon the Roman Empire as it had upon Eygpt.
So one might wonder why the change in tune?

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Well forced conversions were very common for early christians (norway, russia in particular..)

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The Fall of the Roman Empire brought western civilization into anarchy. Churches of this period were isolated fortresses which resided in rural communties where they sought to teach their Christian beliefs. Chieftains rose to power & secular governments were formed, these Lords sent their descendents to the clergy (or the clergy went to their castles to educate (paid) their chidren). Thus a tentative relationship was formed between Church & State, neither represented an absolute authority. The church held sway upon the masses was the balance of power to Kings (given devine authority) ruled over lesser Lords (Dukes, etc). These Kings ruled through Martial Force & expanded their domain by such, this was justified by the Church by the axiom they were serving GOD by their doing these things in the name of God (Christ).

Well....it is impossible to have peace on earth, because as man....and women.
we still have sin on earth...and in our mortal states.
Not to mention, if we always had peace...and things were good....what need would we have for heaven.

But true, we must pray for this.

IF everyone prayed in unison for the common goal....it would occur. But we know....mankind is always in the throes of wars, suffering, pain, sickness, anger, etc etc...

BUT those who desire and pray for it, will have it eventualy.....God does answer prayers, in His own time. Only he understands the necessity for balance....

Now, Okcity, because someone can see the need for war vs sitting back and just hoping things work out...and you disagree does NOT make your ideals better...or worse.
Just different.

However, on the point of reference I already made...277 years of peace in 3400 years....overwhelming.

When were those years of peace..? Heck if I know...
From the time I was born til now, I have always heard about wars somewhere. About civil wars, wars abroad, wars of religion, wars of cultures, wars of nations...

Doesnt make a war the right choice, but when in a defensive mode...completely different than an offensive.

Christians in ancient times were first persecuted...
came into power...thus persecuting.
IT is always power that leads men astray.

But man is man...and shall never be equal to Christ and God the Father...and this is why we need to go to church!
IF we were perfect, we would not have need for such an institution.

Apperently...we need it now more than ever.