Madrid Bombings

Read this article and tell me what you think::

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1168540,00.html

It's from The Guardian newspaper in the UK, and compares the effects of 9/11 to what the effects of 3/11 will be. I found it to be quite interesting.

This is not Europe's 9/11. As sad as this may seem, this is a near non-event in France (maybe just my region?).
The author struck me as very european. In any case, if Spain wants freedom from Islamic terror it must :
- not continue helping with america's obscure, ineffective war on terror which only serves to advertise your self as anti-islamic
- not tie itself closely to France who's atheistic anti-islam policies (or at least perceived as this) are not appreciated by islamic terrorists.
- basically go neutral instead of following the EU and the USA into terrorism

I can't believe you guys barely knew it happened! I was wondering why it wasn't already posted!

More than 200 people died! It's all over the news here in the U.S., and today the Socialist party took power in Spain because of the way this event shook the election. The Spanish people blamed the incumbents, who were orginally expected to win, for bringing this bombing upon the Spanish people for supporting the U.S. decision on Iraq.

This event is very important for Spain's, and I thought Europe's, history. Its already made a momentous change in their politics.

Decius how can you be glad for division at a time like this? I agree, the Iraq war was idiotic and purposeless, but the Western world needs to stand together now. I'm not suggesting reckless invasions like in Iraq. If the Arab world says its threatened, they better damn well take a look at whats been happening in the West.

By the way, blame the Bush Administration for the U.S.'s "imperalistic movements", not the U.S. as a whole. Bush is catching a lot of well deserved hell in this country right now, believe me, and the majority in America did not support many of his agressive actions.

Another article to see, which is only partially related, but which I found interesting:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=572&ncid=572&
;e=3&u=/nm/20040315/lf_nm/mideast_iraq_volunteers_dc_1

This is indeed a tragic and horrible event that was made against seemingly innocent victims. Indeed they had no direct links to the iragi war or the afghan conflict but their government was indeed supportive of the Us opperation in Iraq. So in a way they werer permisive to such an act-
Look at it this way there were protests etc- but these did not go far enough the people did not stop the actions of their countries so they made themselves a part of the crime by letting happen as everyone else in western world did aside from those people who "wenr to far" and got thrown in jail. I still beleive that by allowing these attrocities to unfold we are all giving it the green light by doing nothing. So then are all those who do nothing to stop the crime as guilty? The answer apparently is yes.

"I can't believe you guys barely knew it happened! I was wondering why it wasn't already posted! "
Did you know 2 weeks ago 200 Rowandans were slaughtered in a single day for religious/ethnic reasons? Well now you do.
I find many people cannot feel empathy properly anymore, because there is so much death we have trouble being consistent with our concern for foreigners. My point being, don't criticize others for caring more or less about a few hundred dead based on nationality (subconsciously).
Though I am indeed surprised so many aren't reacting to "Spain's 9/11".

"The Spanish people blamed the incumbents, who were orginally expected to win, for bringing this bombing upon the Spanish people for supporting the U.S. decision on Iraq."
Everything is so depressing... The terrorists achieved their aims in halting Spain's anti-terrorist policies. Other terrorists seeing the success of terrorism here are going to be encouraged to try elsewhere.

The spanish election is now in question by the western press= the thinking being that the folks were scarred into votting for for the socialist partiy which opposed the involvment in Iraq- so does this kind of thing undermine democracy? I think not I hink the Spanish woke up and rememberd that they were opposed to this involvment in the first place and that their government caved into US presure do do so.

some very good points Decius-

Terrorists cannot be stopped by force - there agenda I beleive is to change something that is effecting them people driven to this sort of thing have obviously been wronged in some terrible way in order for them to be driven to such terrible acts. We must examine our actions not to playquate them ie raising the white flag but we must reexamine what the hell we are doing or are allowing to be done- we let to much shit go by and do nothing!
Indeed a different approach is required if the world is to live in peace. Al quida seems to be more than 1 step ahead i would not be surprised if there are attacks planned for the upcomming US elections.. but i hope those will not happen as that might just scare the US into being more aggresive.

I R Me: "This is indeed a tragic and horrible event that was made against seemingly innocent victims. Indeed they had no direct links to the iragi war or the afghan conflict but their government was indeed supportive of the Us opperation in Iraq. So in a way they werer permisive to such an act"

I'm sure NO civilian is "permissive" to being blown up, beside suicide bombers.

"Look at it this way there were protests etc- but these did not go far enough the people did not stop the actions of their countries so they made themselves a part of the crime by letting happen"

So civilians who protested deserve to be blown up? What else do you suggest the people should have done?

DumbTeen: "Did you know 2 weeks ago 200 Rowandans were slaughtered in a single day for religious/ethnic reasons? Well now you do."

I am fully aware that Africa is hell right now. I feel as much sympathy for the people massacred all the time in Africa as the people in Spain, but this event in Rwanda was not all over the news. I never mentioned yours or Decius's levels of sympathy, just that you hadn't heard about this event. (By the way, it's spelled "Rwandans".

"don't criticize others for caring more or less about a few hundred dead based on nationality (subconsciously)."

I didn't mean to criticize you and Decius, I was just surprised. Don't take offense. Also, like I said, I feel just as much sympathy for 200 dead Africans, Europeans, Arabs, Asians, etc. as I do for 200 dead Spaniards.

Decius: "I am very glad for a division. The worst possible thing that could happen right now is more blame being forced unto the middle east as a whole for the actions of some privatized group of terrorists."

But shouldn't our countries work together in order to provide security? I said in the post I thought the Western world should stand together, not invade and attack recklessly. If our countries, even all the world's countries, could work together in communication and defense as one, we would be much safer. I agree that terrorists cannot be stopped by offensive operations.

" It is the result of Bush, his tactics, and all the fucking moronic imbecile's that support his ludicrous agenda."
Decius please. Not every supporter of Bush is an idiot. I honestly believe he is a moral, misguided though ultimately foolish person.
But even that doesn't mean Bush's policies are totally moronic, the dream of a rich, democratized and westernized Iraq could speed up the Islamic World's modernization immensely.
I'm not saying his tactics are right, I am saying they aren't totally selfish, ignorant and 'totally moronic'. I find this strange coming from a person who praises open mindedness.

Yeah Bush would probably a great guy at a party...as long as he wasn't looking for evildoers.

I can't believe I just read what I did Decius. That is disgusting.

Related article:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040318/pl_nm/ira
q_usa_congress_dc_2

Damn Republicans. Hopefully they're just weakening themselves.

Pointing out? You said "I'm almost hoping" and called the effects of terrorist attacks "required change".

What part did you do to "avert this destiny"? And no, I don't want to face terrorist attacks because I don't believe that death is positive change or is ever a positive thing for that matter.

I just don't think supporting the terrorists or standing behind their causes is the best way to bring about good things in our world.

Terrorists target civilians Decius. I understand what you're saying, that in the long run more deaths from terrorists will allow more to survive later.

All I have suggested is stronger defense and security at home. I haven't said anymore countries should be invaded.

What I mean is that, yes, if we do not retaliate things may get better, but to hope for a terrorist attack and deaths of the innocent is plain wrong.

We need a campaign not of aggression, but education, and an understanding leader who is competent and knows the ways of other cultures. We need to take out troops out the Middle East and replace them with teachers. When terrorists have no cause, they will hopefully be discredited among their people. And I'm not saying this leader has to be whoever is elected in November as America's president. I think we're coming to the time America may have to step down anyway.

You take a nihilistic view of this and say we sit back and watch things go boom? No. There are times when someone has to step up to the plate and interrupt fate, my friend.

A new leader for the world? I don't see that happening right away. Europe is club of bickering socialists with purely national (as opposed to European) interests at heart.
No other country has anywhere near the money and resources of the USA and so I don't see another country taking up the role as leader.
On the other hand, within the next 10 or 20 years I could see China having a strong enough economic power and prestige to establish itself as a new world leader.