Is nothing something? - Page 3

in my mind absolute nothingness does not exist.....because the void is still there...and that is something

Nothing is the lack of something, and therefore isn't anything. If nothing is the absence of something, then nothing can't be considered something, because what nothing is implies that it isn't something.

Defining nothing first requires one to define something, and that is a much easier term to define.

Dictionary.com defines something, in this context, at least, as

something

n : a thing of some kind

This is an extremely broad definition, but it suffices nevertheless. Something is absolutely ANYTHING, and Nothing isn't. So, if one thing IS, and one ISN'T, then you may draw your difference, and know that Nothing really isn't Something.

nothing is something when it's percieved!....if the void was existent without your knowledge then you found out about it.. then it would be a something... .....and even out of existence....nothingess was a something unknown to you...

A concept is not "something", to me. Perceiving nothing does not make it exist, but simply fabricates the concept that it is, indeed, the lack of something, but not something on its own.

And if nothing is always something, then something would have to be nothing as well. If one can be the other, then it must work both ways. And I know that for each "something" I can name, I can not also count it as "nothing". Therefore, nothing IS NOT something.

Fun argument.

I like it too.......the perception of a something says it's a nothing right?....because it's not their, it's a new alteration of thought and reality which is what you're pretty much saying.. correct me if i'm wrong........it's like seeing nothing behind you.. and turning and around and seeing a beautiful landscape...the nothing became a something once it was percieved........

I understand what you're saying about Nothing being nothing and such.....but like you said it works both ways so whatever nothing there is...it is a something and vice versa... when you turn around a see the landscape, the something you were percieving before, now becomes that nothing...because it's no longer percieved........ therefore if all is based on your perception, then everything is something... and the knowledge of nothing no longer exists......... therefore nothing always becomes a something....... nothing always is a something..

I'm enjoying this more and more with every post.

Anyway, what we are arguing about now, is not whether nothing is something, but rather if nothing, in the form of a perception (or idea, or thought, or concept, or anything of the sort) is something, specifically.

"Nothing" can't exist. Something, implied by its very definition, ALWAYS exists, and therefore is the opposite of Nothing. If Nothing were to exist, it would become something, but during no point in the transformation would both exist at the exact same time. Something removes itself from Nothing once its evolution to Something is complete.

For instance, if you were to believe that the planets in this universe were formed out of "Nothing" (a difficult concept to grasp, yes), at no point in time would the Nothing and Something be on the same level, which is, in this case, measured by "existence".

Nothing can never "exist", because if it was to evolve into something existing, it would instantly become Something, in which case Nothing is only becoming Something and really is not Something in the present form. Nothing can never be Something, for this reason.

true true I agree with you....but does the somethingness ever seperate itself?...or is it just a different view or existence?.....when you see and don't see...the 2 exist at the same time....the none existent is exists in its state...and the existing is present in its state...but both are present at the same time.......see you're saying it with seperation of the two... nothing as nothing..something as something...I'm agreeing with you, yet stating that they are one at the same time............so like you said, nothing can NEVER exist because it's non existent....but it will always exist because it is one with somethingness......2 being 1......

sorry I wanna try explaining another way....lol.... going back to the perception thing..... If I see the beautiful landscape it exists...but the nothingness that's behind me is present at the same time....everything that I don't see is also present.... seeing what is...and knowing what is not....at the same time! and what because it's not percievable it isn't true?...or because they are at seperate position means they can't be at one interval?...........individuality on it's own will always be what it is on it's own....but there are always to sides to a coin, it doesn't take away or add to the coin...but it's just the other part that's unknown.....

Nothing may exist as perception, or concept. Why we continue this argument is that one of us considers a concept to count as "something", while one of us realizes a concept is only "something" if it has something concrete to judge it by. If I am thinking about "nothing" (the lack of thinking, and not thinking about what nothing IS, is what I mean with this statement), I am not thinking. If I am not thinking, I am not thinking about SOMETHING, because I am not thinking at all.

You can't think about nothing because it therefore would not be thinking. Even as a perception, whatever you are thinking about will always be considered "something". To not think is the illusion properly replaced for the expression of "thinking about nothing", because considering the latter is impossible to comprehend, and anything impossible to comprehend can not be believed with honesty.

I can not honestly believe that Nothing can ever be Something, therefore, and can refuse to believe otherwise until my logic is revised, forgotten, or evolved entirely.

but you've justed stated it.........you've just stated that thinking about Nothing...(tho misconstrued in so many ways) is thinking about something...that's what I'm saying....like I know that they're seperate but I choose to see them as one.. it makes things easier for the "me" to converse about...I just like the oneness thing it keeps me at peace.....you're really insightful too......lol....but I agree with everything you just stated.......this was a full conversation....I can't have those too often....thanks for that...

Your welcome, but please, reserve your thanks for someone who has done you a favor that can not be considered mutual. I appreciate this debate as well, as I have said a few times already.

To continue the argument, as if it is even necessary at this point (fulfilling arguments are fulfilling to me because I do not care who is right or wrong, in the end, but rather that I have achieved knowledge, and all knowledge is appreciated), I do NOT believe that thinking about nothing is considered "something", because I do not believe it is possible to think about "nothing". Thinking about "nothing" is not thinking, and therefore it cannot be done. You can, however, think about the concept of nothing, as you were stating earlier, but thinking about a concept CONCERNING Nothing does not make Nothing existent. Thinking about a void does not mean that the void exists. If I am thinking about something that does not exist, then how can you tell me it DOES exist, if it is already established (or inferred, as the term "Nothing" definitely infers, in the same respect) that what you are attempting to "think about" is not anything at all?

^^your last statement is precise....and how can you say that not thinking is in so many words "impossible"??...everything is possible.......not thinking but acting, just like i'm typing to you right now....not thinking but just letting my fingers move... pure action......to get into this further tho....thinking about a nothing is a thought...no matter what is being thought about it is as it is...a thought!....and a though is something....... percieving nothing in your head, is also a thought because you're looking to something.....your considering the reality of what is or isn't....and anything considered becomes tangible to the "you"......because those thoughts and inklings are now property of the "you"......therefore making it something..... Not thinking is not percieving not thinking....it's just relaxing and doing whatever feels natural....act on instinct...not what is taught, or impressed upon your being...not what you know... but what is in you naturally........you already realize that you're powerless to everybody else...you already realize that everybody else is powerless against you.......you prolly love everyone like yourself also....so do what's natual in love without thinking about your actions and perfect movement will resume...

Not "everything" is possible. I don't believe that at all. Many things in life are impossible because they are not able to be achieved successfully. I can not lift my feet off the floor and carry myself to the moon, because the forces around me prevent it from happening. I can imagine doing it, but imagining something is allowing it to exist in a state other than reality, and I am restricting my argument to reality only, because only in dreams is nothing impossible.

And acting, seemingly without any trace of thought, is impossible, although it is difficult to realize that because you are not always aware that your subconscious does things for you. The subconscious is in control of everything you think about without realizing that you are making a conscious effort to think about it at all. It may seem that you are not thinking about typing as you type a post to me, but your subconscious is allowing your fingers to move where they are moving, and your mind is free to "think" of other things-- this is an example of multitasking, and it is something that makes the brain so fascinating to me.

I offer this for the topic.

I think it entirely possible that "nothing" can exist in two possibilites. One being that God is everything and if this is so then he is nothing. So then it is possible to say that on the level of existence known as Godhood, then nothing is apart of your existence. But so then is there a nothing without existence. Hard to beleive or understand but it is logical.
Almost as if the yin and yang of chinese cultural is used best to explain this theory. But rather then good and evil it is a cirlcle of existence and non-existence.

aight this is where the crazy part comes out.....

see you said that nothing is impossible in a dream...when your reality is a dream...i'm talking about a REAL dream.... see the concept of the subconscious has been taught to you.... and what you think is the "subconscious" is the spiritual you.. Your body is just a shell...the person that lives is inside of you, therefore when I say that "I" don't think....the I doesn't think....therefore only the actual me can act.......release all need to think for myself....and only let action proceed.... but back to the dream thing.... -before I start i'ma tell you that when I type it's in spiritual conotations only..-...aight now the dream reality we live in is solely for the us we're supposed to be to experience life......the actual you can do things that are impossible for a spiritual entity to perform......impossibility is only made for the spiritual.....you can achieve all that you "imagine" when you realize who the actual you is...then you have no limits........and the forces you talk about keeping you behind is the forces of you keeping yourself back... what gravity??....what's that?...all I see is free space where anything can take place.........*shrugs*......and like all things when you realize the real you, you're not going to do everything instantly......mistakes first, then perfection.....

and when I was typing to you.....the spiritual me was moving.. the I was not thinking.....and I wasn't multitasking cuz I didn't know what I was going to say therefore the I couldn't act....only the spiritual me could...understand?... like my reality is no more just physical...it's a oneness of all, spirituality directing and physical resolving......I'd say more i'm sorry....but i'm tired.......my body is good to go, but my insides are spent.........I'll try and finish this tho.......goodnight