If your a clone do you have a soul? - Page 2

You pseudointellects make me sick

what do you mean by soul, anyway? and if they dont have them, then why dont they have them?

by soul do you mean a consciousness, or an ability to experience? i think everyone who is conscious has an ability to experience, and that is the foundation for all experience. this ability to experience cannot change, but merely performs its function of experiencing. i think having the ability to experience is related to the brain in some way, and how it functions. in any case, if the brain didn't have the ability to process information then this property would not have anything to sort of attach itself to, if that is what it needs to derive experience from physical phenomena. i am not sure if it is an information-processing system that causes experience to take place, but it seems to me that in order for experience to occur at all within a human brain there needs to be something other than the physical things that are inside of the brain, because when we think of consciousness, we cannot know that anyone else has this property, even if they tell us they do. the only thing we have to go by is ourself, and looking at a brain and understanding all of its parts still doesn't shed light on why the functions in the brain give rise to consciousness. all of consciousness alters from moment to moment, but the foundation, the ability to experience, remains the same. it is an abstract thing, because something like the ability to do anything cannot be thought to be a physical object. so, if there is a separate, underlying thing beyond the human brain that creates consciousness, it must be this.
i still don't know why this ability to experience attaches itself to such things as the human brain, but if it has something to do with the brain's ability to process information, then i don't see why clones wouldn't be able to experience like the rest of us, because their brains wouldn't be any different from ours.

"Twins are a different concept than clones, twins have an individual personality and mentality, a clone is exactly the same as the person who he got cloned, and shares the same genetic factors and the same mental factors, including memory, and if a clone didn't know that it got cloned it wouldn't no if it had a soul or not."
What the hell??
Clones that exist today (like Dolly the Sheep) are the same as twins apart from the time difference. Clones do not have the same memories or even the exact same looks, but only the same genes. The clones you describe cannot be created with the technology we have now, and may never be created.

I believed from the begining of this discussion that we were discussing cloning as it exists today, and the consequences of cloning humans. Not this weird, hypothetical form of cloning you two have described.

Soulreaper - I love you too.

Ok, so when it comes to clones if you are a religious person you would say no, because it wasn't made by God, it was created by man! But I did a report on this for one of my classes and this is what I know. Scientists want to create clones of humans so they can alter the genetic defect of that person so when it comes time that they need a new liver, they will get one that does not have that problem......so basically they want to make an organ farm. The problem with this is, in order for it to be legal, they have to make them without heads, otherwise they are considered a human and have rights just like any other human.

Now with that I mind I ask you people what you think about making an organ farm for your needs?

damn, i cant believe i was so stupid as to stray off of such a specific subject as cloning.

still, i think everyone has their own definition for such an obscure subject as soul, so i suggest someone come up with an agreeable definition, otherwise no agreements are going to be made.

Jfine
i think an organ farm would be cool
but they have to make sure that the clones are not really people - just organs, can't feel can't think can't do anything ....... which i don't think is possible

I agree with Windupnostril, and i am going to leave it at that..

Of course a close will have a soul. Well not really a soul because that's just a made up word for nothing in particular. Everything has a lifeforce and it's the life force that controls the clone. So yes, clone's will and do have a "soul".

Yeah, thats about it.Soul is in fact YOU. It is your peronality, your character. The clones will be entirely different people, like twins. They may have inhabited a number of things through geans, but overall they would have a completelt different personality, thus a different soul.

quote:

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They may have inhabited a number of things through geans, but overall they would have a completelt different personality, thus a different soul.

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Are you saying that if you are a living soul (?) then the soul is the (essence) energy which forms living being, human?

Well, actually, there is no such thing as a soul in the sense of some life force or whatever!Earler on people just came up with this spirit and soul thingy when they could not explain what breathes life in a human being, when infact it is embedded right into our genes.So there is no question of a soul in the sense of some 'life force'.Even if the clone has the same genes, he will be different because 'I think therefore I am'.

yes but looking at it from another direction.
Life , human or other wise is composed of individual units carring out complex chemical actions to produce the living entity.
Are you not a collection organism having life and having consciousness beyond the individual organisms which give you life?
We do organ tranplants effecting the physical health yet it is the same (entity) person? We have DNA testing of hair or blood or skin samples to positively identify persons being as individual as finger prints?

it seems as if the more we learn in science, the more it makes religion wrong. i don't thik this. i think that god is beyond human understading. this question is very hard to answer

Yeah, ofcourse we are made up of different organisms.Thats how life evovled in the first place. Simple organisms like these joined to gather to form more complicated organisms and so on. But they are not ' alive' in our sense. They have no concious. They are machines, and we so far don't consider machines to be seperate beings. Asking if we harm these organisms is irellevant. We are them and they are us.
Dude-Yes, God is imcomperhensible.'it seems as if the more we learn in science, the more it makes religion wrong' Yes, but the thing is that Religion was intended for people thousands of years ago. If religion had informed them of the things that we are just starting to disocver, they would have freaked out! So our discovering things that religion does not teach does not make it valid. We are just told the basics in religion, the rest is up to us.

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/frmid=17-u-thrdid=11376-u-page=2
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I mentioned transplants to direct attention to the fact (?) that just about every physical organ & gland has been transplanted except for the brain? Although a few incidents have arisen which seem to indicate a transfer of soul properties (?) that to most see the mind as being the agent which contains the physical aspect of soul? Such that some think of soul as being which extends beyond the life of the body while others see it ending with the physical body?
Just pointing out a possible definition of soul?