How do we know? - Page 4

"I dont think that it is written in any religion( if it does, please say so) that a person gets benefits from God in the present life."
Well, just in reply to this, I'm positive its written somewhere in the bible that prayer will inevitably help you in this life as well as the next one.

Im kinda new here =O
Im more of a logical person rather than Faithful, the little beleif in god was made even smaller by reading a book about the subconscous mind. Is says that everything that happens to you is the result of your conscious minds wish your subconscous has taken.
ex. Someone who is afraid of gettin sea sick and is on a long voyage in rough water, if you walk up to him and say he should go under the deck, he will become afraid that he is going to get sea sickness, his subconscous mind thinks he want to get seasickness and will develope symptomes of seasickness for him, but if the same person went to a veteran sailor and said the same thing, the sailor would just laught it off because he thinks he is immune to seasickness tehrefore his subconscous mind thinks that aswell.
It also has references that the subconscious mind made the body from almost nothing (a sperm and an egg) so therefore it might also contain some regererative powers, which could be the reason behind those miraculous/impossible healing that God gets credit for.
Or is says so in the book, im sorry but i cant seem to find it now, ill try sometime soon, its called "The power of your subconscious mind" . It also has references of whether God is just your subconscious mind, well anywayz i will find the book and post its stats here so you guys can read it.

Sorry i strayed from the original topic, the few posts above where talking about something different so i tought id reply =D

hey hey are yous!
time for my 2 bits worth!
well what we know ( to adddress the entry question) is based of course on what we learn and accept as facts. certainly there is some faith in what we learn as in science and in religion we must accept certain things as truth as it would be completly impossible to investigate all these things for our selves in the learniing process not to mention the vast amount of time it would take. this is the only way that we as a people can grow we must accept previously established ideas (at least to some degree) So do we know anything- yes indeed that we are gleefully brainwashed!
I can see why religion and the LORD get constantly thrown into the mix of a philoshy of life dialoge- tou belive in it or not and that greatly shapes how you preceive yourself. Let me propose thisthat since we are made in the LORD"s reflection is it then feasable that the LORD is also equally confused about his exsistence? I wonder if he sits around all day asking all the saints cryptic questions about exsistence and if a toe is toe etc?

Indeed, God may ask questions about His existence etc, but to a large extent, i dont think that He inquires about the questions we ask, but on a higher level.

How do we know anything? For example how do we know our toes are toes, how do we know that computers are computers, or even better how do we know that letters are letters? How do we know what words are? Again, how do we know anything?

How we are able to know what these things are is through our ability to communicate. We know that are toes are called "toes" because that is the socially accepted term for our feet. If you were spanish for example, your toes aren't "toes," they are "dedo del pie." So, if your question is asking, "how do we know that letters are letters? How do we know what words are," it's is simply because we invented the letters...and called them letters, we know what words are because we as a communicating society taught eachother that when you string a bunch of these letters together, you get a new symbol with a new meaning called a word. If on the other hand, you are talking in terms of ultimate reality, i can give some imput there too...

Ya, talk in terms of 'ultimate reality'.
Lets see, how do we know our toes are relly toes. Well, pehaps a simple answer is that they are not real! I mean, they are a creation, and through evlolution or whatever came tobe that way. If life started all over, humans would turn out very differently. A toe would look like something else and so on. It is not absolute that a toe is really like we percieve it to be. I mean, for an alien something of it might behave as a toe, while that toe and our toe may be something quite diiferent.

hmmmmmm, that was a bit focused on toes. Well, what about other things in general?How do we know that our computers are eally computers?well, simply because we percieve them that way. A cat for example, may view it as a useless piece of solid etc, we view it as something that helps our undertsanding and etc, while a higher being then us, may view it as a bunch of molecules combined togather in such a way that the electro chemical forces inside give a illusion resembling reality because of 5x[y78,h78hgh4 x f] etc.
So thinking thing has its own differen perceptions of everything, including God, which is the supreme perception.

Ya, talk in terms of 'ultimate reality'.
Lets see, how do we know our toes are relly toes. Well, pehaps a simple answer is that they are not real! I mean, they are a creation, and through evlolution or whatever came tobe that way. If life started all over, humans would turn out very differently. A toe would look like something else and so on. It is not absolute that a toe is really like we percieve it to be. I mean, for an alien something of it might behave as a toe, while that toe and our toe may be something quite diiferent.

hmmmmmm, that was a bit focused on toes. Well, what about other things in general?How do we know that our computers are eally computers?well, simply because we percieve them that way. A cat for example, may view it as a useless piece of solid etc, we view it as something that helps our undertsanding and etc, while a higher being then us, may view it as a bunch of molecules combined togather in such a way that the electro chemical forces inside give a illusion resembling reality because of 5x[y78,h78hgh4 x f] etc.
So thinking thing has its own differen perceptions of everything, including God, which is the supreme perception.
Anyinputs?(or outputs for that mater!)

By my last sentence I mean that God also has a perception of everything, which is the rue one.

"I don't think it is. There is no mention of definite miracle as the result of prayer. Where is it written that makes you positive?"

Exodus 8:29 - Moses answered, "As soon as I leave you, I will pray to the LORD, and tomorrow the flies will leave Pharaoh and his officials and his people. Only be sure that Pharaoh does not act deceitfully again by not letting the people go to offer sacrifices to the LORD."

And more importantly : Job 22:27 - You will pray to him, and he will hear you, and you will fulfill your vows.

In response to the original question: The only thing we know is that we are experiencing. We can never know what we are experiencing. The only real truth is the truth of experience.

For those of you that do not know how things got their names (and how the laws of nature became laws) I would strongly recommend reading Mark Twain's "Letters from the Earth", especially "Eve's Diary".

any form of substance that looks like this we all call it something, or any typre of occurane we call it something whatever it is that we call it... toe is a toe by the way it looks same with compuiter, of how substances are formed a certain way to look a certain way, just like how sperm type substance contribute to toes.. how do we or actually how do I know that everything isnt just an illusion from our senses?... well at least i "know" that i have the feeling of those senses wether im fooled or not

a lot of the things you guys are saying, is just common sense of the way things are, you saying "its because of god" is just you convincing yourself that its god.. smarten up.. i know i cant prove whats right or wrong but think more logicly (perhaps not talking to this thread im not conmcentrating now, be bavk later)

although i do agree that there are auithorites out there that attempt to tell us what things are and should not be, the acceptance of this truth derives from us. for something to be true we must self-authenticate the truth that is presented to us. we only agree with an authorative position (something meant to coerce into accepting a fact) if it does not affect us emotionally, we disagree with something if it does.

for example an astronmer who obviously knows alot about stars tells us a star is some billion miles away, well what do i care about the stars, so we agree with the astronmer, but say an mathmatician, is also a scientist, gives usamount of $50, in some circumstances this does not matter, but if this amount left by our dead aunt we get upset and tell him to recaculate it and hope its more

a man who writes an anatomy book tells us a toe is a toe, a society based on the ideal ego tells us that our outer shell, our skin our toes etc is who we are and that is our being, society places its ideals on us at a young age, but as long we do not question, since i doubt the naming of the toe has no emotinal quarrell with us, then that is what we know, that is what we accept, all of our beliefs our definitions depend on whether are not we shall accept them

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