The True Religion? - Page 2

When you open your eyes and study other religions you can discover basic truths.

The Hopi Indians for example.

" any of you have seen Dogma" My niece thought I would like the movie. I told my son about it so he bought it for my birthday, we watched it together. I was shocked. I got the point - but did there have to be so much blood. It could have been a good movie, a piece of art that proves a point, but Hollywood trashed it.

The point Dogma had to make is good - but I can't recommend that movie to nobody. Killing without feeling is wrong, Hollywood should not splash that on the movie screen - it is not good for our society.

okcitykid: No I didn't see the movie so No i don't see the point as you didn't recomend it, I probably won't.
(Unless the point was not to see the movie)
ironclad: Wow, am I surprised by your response I wouldn't have thought you had it in you, GREAT and accurate too!
Decius: Sorry brother but your fanitism against Christians seems to be showing? As ironclad stated Jesus gave the Apostles a job to do, to go forth and proclaim the good news to the Jews first then to the non-jews. As in no way, shape or form did Jesus or the apostles (disciples) ever force anyone into their faith (belief) & because the New Testament was written about and based upon their actions, thoughts and messages. It would be logical to assume that to do so is not Part nor parsel to that (the Way) belief. In fact when conforted by disbelieve among the Jews then they were to go to the gentiles and if the gentiles raised up against them then they were to leave (knocking the dust from their feet). So I understand that those who do these things aren't in Truth, Christian. Perhaps so should you but on the other hand it is the spirit that convicts so you may look upon them as those who haven't been convienced of the Truth, yet (a spiritual work in progress: Saul of Tarsus conversion into the Apostle Paul)?

Cturtle - Decius's three points are facts "1. Our God is correct, all other Gods are incorrect.
2. All those who do not believe in our God are sinners and will go to hell
3. It is your Christian duty to inform people of their chance to save themselves. "
All facts, nothing you can contend.

Fourth fact : people were forced converted many times (and/or killed for being a different faith) in Scandinavia (the purging of the pagan faiths), in Rome (when the Emperors went from persecuting chrisitians to persecuting pagans), during the Inquisition and the aztec empire for example, all in the name of the Christian God.
Now, I don't know if I am anti-christian for saying this, but these are still facts.

yup
they are
and that's one fucked up religion if you ask me ... so glad i wasn't stupid enough to believe in this.
anotherer screwed up fact - if you didn't know about christianity and believed in some other god you still go to hell

cturtle : how do you know that your god is real and all the other ones are just myths ?

Cturtle - Decius's three points are facts
1. Our God is correct, all other Gods are incorrect.
Yes, I have heard that statement before but can you tell me where it is written in the Bible? Now I have read in the Bible that the one who created all that exist, created man and though they are separate, that this being has a spiritual nature and man being spiritual has access though their spirits to this being, we call (define as) GOD. This being is not just the GOD of the Jew nor just the Christian but is GOD of all creation.
2. All those who do not believe in our God are sinners and will go to hell.
I think this may have been covered on another page so I would like check on it first.
3. It is your Christian duty to inform people of their chance to save themselves.
You are absolutely right Christians were given the decree to spread the Good News
All facts, nothing you can contend.
GOD also gave man a decree to care for the earth, etc
Fourth fact : people were forced converted many times or killed for being a different faith
Yes, there are those whom call themselves Christian who have done these things. But as it is written of Christ , Why do you call to me, Lord, Lord? I know you not. (or at least words to that effect.) As it is also written that we are all brothers and sisters yet when Jesus's mother, brother and sisters came to where He was teaching. Some came forth to tell Him, His response My mother, brothers and sisters are those who seek to do the Will of (My Father) GOD.
mia--cturtle : how do you know that your god is real and all the other ones are just myths ?
Seeking with mind, body and spirit, the summation of my being. Myths ? Is Mammon a myth, does not man make power, wealth and pocessions Lord of their lives? So the spirit of mammon exist but it is not GOD.
anotherer screwed up fact - if you didn't know about christianity and believed in some other god you still go to hell
define 'believed in some other god' I don't know that we agree about its' definition.

I studied all the religions and thought once again - as I had done many times in the past - thought I found the one true one.

Then I had a dream one night were I heard a voice but saw nothing, explaining to me that what I believed was wrong and further explaining, "God takes us as if we were a ball of clay and shapes us onto himself"

This dream has left me with many questions. How does God do this? Is everybody included in us? And is Jesus involved in this?

As far as I know - it is God who does this and nomatter what you believe, it makes no difference.

And I have heard this argument many times that if you have the right beliefs you will be a good person and if you have the wrong beliefs you will be a bad person. Their deeds are no fault of their own but it is due to their beliefs. But I can tell you that I have not seen this at all in my years on this earth. I've seen people do good things and bad things and it didn't make no difference what they believe.

You can look at nature and see just how complicated is its creation and know that none of us is that smart. We have beliefs in something way above our understanding. I think if a person even thinks they hold the sole truth of the matter, then they are vane indeed. There own vanity causes them to be ignorant to greater truths that they may never know.

"Yes, I have heard that statement before but can you tell me where it is written in the Bible?"
You shall have no other Gods before me. Or something like that. The implication is, Allah, Yahve are fictitious or below me. Old pagan Gods never denied other Gods their place.

" This being is not just the GOD of the Jew nor just the Christian but is GOD of all creation. "
Therefore any pagan gods or any god worshipped other then the one defined in the Bible is false. Its a simple implication, unless Yahve, Allah and God are one and the same in which case you put into question so much you might as well throw the holy books out the window.

"You are absolutely right Christians were given the decree to spread the Good News"
I'm glad people don't do that seriously anymore. It'd be so annoying to have preachers at my doorstep. Though I suppose I would have fun debating with them.

" Yes, there are those whom call themselves Christian who have done these things."
According to their interpretation of the Bible (a christian one) they had the right to do these things. The biblical God often seems to desire the death and seems to encourage the slaughter of pagans (especially the jewish God of the OT. It is only natural for certain christians to interpret it that way.
Besides, the Bible can be contradictory, or at least have huge varying interpretations. Just because they disagree with your interpretation doesn't make them any less christians (in fact they wouldn't call you christian).

"define 'believed in some other god' I don't know that we agree about its' definition."
I'm guessing Yahve, Allah or any of the (very) numerous pagan Gods around before the spreading of monotheism.

"You can look at nature and see just how complicated is its creation and know that none of us is that smart."
Nature isn't smart. Nature can sometimes be beautiful, wondrous and border on ingenious, but it is never conscious or intentional.

"We have beliefs in something way above our understanding."
Yes.

cturtle : i'm sorry but i really don't get 2/3 of what you write so i have no idea ...
i don't really have a great vocabulary ..............

Dumbteen - I never said nature was smart. Let me rephrase it.

YOU ARE NOT THAT SMART.

Decius: I agree wholeheartedly with you that Christianity does not advocate violence. . . But as you agreed, a religion that in essence breeds elitism can innevitably "de-humanize" non-believers as an eventuality, since they are less "pious" or "aware".
Yes, I must agree with you about that.I noted from the discussion about the biblical paintings (illustrations) that I had not paid particular attention to them. For example I think that I remember knife & loaf of bread upon the table in the scene the Last Supper? This scene is a depiction of Jesus giving the disciples the tradition called 'sacrements' or 'communion'? It is stated that Jesus appeared to the disciples many times when they gathered for a communal meal (for at this time most would be present).
So one would wonder that in giving this His Statement to do this in rememberance of me when they gathered together, implies that it should be done in conjunction with giving thanks to their (FATHER) GOD in prayer before partaking the meal?
http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=15014-u-frmid=17-u-page=2

When I lived along the coast I had a favorite spot where I would go in times of trial. At night when few were about, I would go out on a jetty of rock at the in(out)let of the Intercoastal WaterWay. There I would sit (meditate) listening to sounds of rushing waters crashing against the rocks and I would let these sounds fill my being, letting go of my feelings within sound of the crashing waves. When I returned to awareness I would find that I was listening to the gentle flow of the waves on the beach on the leaward side and my spirit would be at peace as the flowing waters upon the sand.

"You can look at nature and see just how complicated is its creation and know that none of us is that smart."
That statement is very misleading

"YOU ARE NOT THAT SMART."
Yep.

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/thrdid=12746-u-frmid=12-u-page=2
[/url] Pugsl3yB0y: I used to be a believer of fate but now I believe other wise. Fate as I believe it is rather the choices you make in your life. Cuase and effect. . . If life were like that......we'd be nothing more than a video game let alone intelligent.
Well . . . actually I see it a little differently, which may best be given in a reference,
Sacred Language (Chapter Five - Sacred Numbers pg. 134-135)
http://home.earthlink.net/~clayturtle/refer.html
"In the Lakota Tradition all animate beings are born and die. In the process they pass through what might be called by analogy four states of individuation. Each individual comes into a being as the result of (1)having a potentiality for being (2) transforming this potentiality through birth into as essence that is independent of the body (3)providing continuous evidence that this essence exists, and (4) finally providing evidence that the evidence that the essence independent of the corporeal existence continues after death" . . . "in what we would understand in English to be a system of reincarnation.
When old Lakota medicine men spoke of these four states, they named them (1) sicun (2) tun (3) ni, and (4) nagi, respectively. These four states have been described as constituting a belief in four souls, or at least, four aspects of one soul." . . .
"Rather, if we regard these four states as parts of a process, parts that are named and stated as separate but related categories, then the Lakota concept of soulis much easier to understand." . . .

Interesting. In the Aquarian Gospel Jesus explains that in this life time a rich man may have been a poor man in an earlier life and that a poor man might have been a rich man in an earlier life. There is a pattern by which we follow automatically, however, we can do things differently and the path that we are on changes. Maybe realizing our essence is the beginning of change.