What defines good or evil?

OKCITYKID thought that I brought up a topic worthy of a new thread so here it is! Who is to say what is bad or evil? The way I see it is there are only different points of veiw. eg. If you could go back in time to when Hitler was born, could you kill him while he was still young, "before" he ever did anything wrong. (I put before in quotes because tecnicaly he didn't do it yet but he had a %100 chance of doing it in the future, so it's as good as done) If you said that was evil, what would you have said if you were Jewish? Would it still be wrong? Would saving millions of Jews lives be evil if you had to sacrafice one life? Hmm.... Something to marinate on.

And one more thing! Do you think Hitler thought what he was doing was wrong? Through his eyes, he was doing humanity a favour by creating a master race. Who's to say his point of veiw is more correct than yours or mine?

Good Question! This country is supposedly free, the people are free to live as they choose? If you truely believe in the principle of democracy then all peoplle have the right of chose? Right as long as you coose to live as a democracy or capitalism? Could their be a socialist democracy?
For myself, murder is murder, GOD and country does not justify murder. The ends does not justify the means . . . GOD's Will implies GOD's Way, not man's willfulness. Have I murdered, yes. Would I be willing to do so again if the situation arises that will be something I will have to decide but it would be an individual action based upon that situation. Best not to go looking for trouble, taking the path of least resistence. But push come to shove I tend to react with force equal to the action of others.

Evil is a standard. The mind does the rest. I respect Hitler's moves. It took balls for Castro to overthrow Baptiste. The people who suffered for them consider them evil. Those of us who judge(that's most of us, especially Americans) condemn them, like the drug dealer who pumps poison to feed his kids. The truth is right there: a man's instinct to do for himself. We can't do what we want whenever we want. That's a natural state. Humans gave that up to live a longer, safer life in a society. Criminals, who are usually antisocial, are closer to the natural state. It's not evil; it's selfish gratification. I do things that hurt other people but not because I'm demon seed. It's just that in order for me to enjoy certain things in life, I have to negate the needs and comfort of others. "Good" is nothing more than obeying the law, adhering to your religion, and contributing to the family. All of these are the building blocks of civilization, so you can see how a radical atheist without a spouse or children can be such a threat to the American way. America pumps marriage so hard because more children mean more workers; encouraging goodwill keeps these spawn from becoming societal deviants. People outside the lines have always been persecuted. Even early Christians got it bad, although they've recently monopolized the world (Muslims are fighting back, though). Everybody gets their turn to suffer. Some suffer for generations, but it is all the circle of life. We like to think that things happen for us differently than they do for the animals, that we can control our fate anymore than they theirs. "What fools these mortals be."

"the drug dealer who pumps poison to feed his kids. " What world do you live in?

You talk about suffering like its just a walk in the park. I know you don't know nothing about it. When you do, you won't be so brazen to down play it. You cannot know unless you been there, and you haven't, you don't.

I knew a man who worshiped saten and claimed, with the most evil laugh to be the son of saten. Everyone in his family worshiped saten. They all died. He was the last, scared to death, he believed he was next. He became a Christian and not only did his laugh change from that which was evil to that which was joyful but even the expression on his face changed.

I don't know if saten exists. But this man very much believed he did and he would tell you a thing or two. I've seen a few things. I know there are things we don't know - but you are just full of talk.

"What fools these mortals be." Yep you are.

"I do things that hurt other people but not because I'm demon seed. It's just that in order for me to enjoy certain things in life, I have to negate the needs and comfort of others." You are nothing new to me. You're only 20 now. Pray that your death is painless. You will know horror.

cturtle talked of freedom, you might call that good, and the lack of freedom evil. But it is a hard one to define. Is a rainstorm evil? Afterwords there is life. Is an earthquake evil? The shifting ground once again creates lifes. Is death evil? It too becomes nourishment to life. Life becomes death and death creates life. So what is evil? Don't know if I could pin point it. But for sure if I walked down the street and saw A grown man try to rape a little girl. I would NOT say to myself, "he thinks what he is doing is ok, and so it is, to bad little girl."

I've been through more shit than you think, kid, but I understand the dynamics of where you're coming from. Black people are peculiar in that we laugh to keep from crying, as they say. I look for everything funny and ironic in whatever happens to me and those around me, good OR bad. If I believe in the light I suppose I must accept that darkness exists (opposites, that kinda shit), but that evil label gets tossed around too much. I'll say the same for Satanics as I do for religious zealots: get a life or get meditation, not an old priest and a young priest.
As far as being nothing new to you, I would hope not. If I were the first person with this comprehension of "good" and "evil" I would be outdone, seriously. And whether my death is painless or not, hell, I'm not immortal, kid--gotta go sometime, somehow. As far as the "all talk" judgment, I have to pull your card on that one. We're all talk on here--IT'S A WEBSITE. I know as much about you as you know about me. Anonymity lets us all keep our balls.
PS: On a serious note, I feel disrespected by your comment about my being twenty. We could exchange ages and I'd be none the richer for it. There are some things that only time can teach, but you gotta respect my gangsta(slang term, don't get live).

I'll always thought intent, not actions, are evil. Any action can be good as long as you trully believe the outcome will be good.
Which intent is evil? To me, the only universally recognised intent that is evil, is selfish intent.

That's some tricky shit, though, Crim. Self is what we live for, at least that's how I feel. You come in and go out alone. We think we have to be about others because it's encouraged; without it, society would fall apart. Like I say, I'm not evil, I don't want to hurt anybody, but I want what I want.

Exactly arcadian, we're all evil. We all live for ourselves. We could all (in the western world) give a little more to starving Africa but we prefer to buy a PC, get an SUV, a nice house, whatever.
There's nothing wrong with that.

I've found other definitions of evil like homosexuality is evil, communism is evil to be fundamentaly pooh so I still treat seflishness to be the closest thing to evil. Though evil doesn' t really exist.

You say that evil does not really exist. But I say we are all good and all evil, it's a decision we make or choose not to make.

I certainly wouldn't go around boasting about hurting other people. Anonymity or not. A poor example if you want to prove to me that there is no evil.

There is no good and evil, but that's because I believe no one is really responsible for their decisions. That' s because I don't really believe in free will either, only that there is an illusion of free will. There is no free will because we are what our genes, an element of randomness and our environment have made us. We have an illusion of free will because societies which can blame people function much better then those who don't.

Without free will there is no such thing as moral choice.

Secondly, no one can claim to be moral (in my eyes) because people are ALWAYS killing by inaction. We could always give a penny more to starving africans, but we choose to live with a little more luxury instead.

Crimson - I like you - you're thinking. I'm not going to tell you that you are right or wrong or that I agree or dissagree. Just keep on thinking. Because if you are wrong - you will find the answer.

The wise man says "I wonder" and the fool says "I know"

Happy to hear that Kid
And yeah I will keep thinking and comparing ideas with people, its one of the best ways to find an answer and question old answers.

Good question! The Christian bible defines what sins are but I kinda go by what Buddhists believe. They believe that what you do in this life directly affects the next. I'm still trying to define a sinful nature. I belief in God yes, but don't believe in the devil, heaven or hell. No such thing tempts you, it's a matter of choice. Evil is in people not in a creature. I believe there is an afterlife, which depending on this life will either be positive or negative based on how good you are or how bad. As the bible suggests the positive is 'heaven' and the negative is hell. Your soul is the oldest thing on this earth. Your soul lives forever, and in the next life your soul will have a new body of someone living in the future, just like it has done in the past.

I agree. When someone does something wrong - it is easy to say, "The devil made me do it." The devil is an excuse I don't believe in. And the threat of hell is used to force people to conform to rules and ideologies that people would not normally subscribe to. I don't believe in hell.

But I think there is a heaven. How can I believe in heaven and not a hell? or how can I believe there is a God and not a devil? These things I can't explain, it just feels right, looks right.

But I have seen evil. People who will do things that will not benefit them or anyone else. Like the man who claimed to be the son of satan. We used to stand forward lookout together every night. He was so scared of the night, and if it was windy, he was really scared. He would confess his sins and ask for forgiveness and ask me to pray for him. But in the day time, he was evil. Rumor had it that he raped a women, left her for dead and laughed about it. One night I was so angry with him that I refused to listen. We had about a 40 knot wind, it was just howling. This man got down on his knees and cried. I told him I would not pray for him. He had to pray for himself. When he said he didn't know how I told him he could read, he was issued a bible. Next day, he was reading the bible. After his mother died. He went to visit the chaplain and became a Christian. He was not the same person after that. He believed there was a Satan, he believed there was a hell, he believed they're were demons. He never got in trouble for anything. Not to long after he became a Christian he was written up for disrespect and sentenced to the brig. I thought it was so unfair. Because he changed so much and he never got in trouble before. But he was happy. Smiling from ear to ear. I just couldn't understand. He was going to a military prison to spend the rest of his enlistment because he was disrespectful to an officer. I asked him why he was so happy. He said, "Satan does not have me anymore, that's why I never got in trouble before, Satan is the ruler of this world, there are things I'm not allowed to tell anyone, but now I'm just like everyone else and Satan can't touch me."

I still don't believe in Satan or hell - but there is something we don't know. I call it evil. I will admit that I don't know what it is, but I've seen it. It's real, it should not be ignored. I think we need to learn about this if we are to conquer it.