What has the US become? - Page 2

The words we used may have been a little harsh. I didn't vote for him. I voted for his opponent. I did not want to see him president.

I've been in the military. I think Mr. Bush is a selfish man. To ask another to sacrifice their life for your personal feelings and beliefs is very arrogant. Even if we loose only five of ours. Those are five of our boys who could have lived. Whether it was right or wrong. It was not needed to protect our freedom. It might have still been ok if Mr. Bush had the decency to ask us first. But no, disspite many, including myself asking him not to do it. He put us in harms way anyways.

I supported him like I was supposed to as an American during the war. You didn't see me in any of those peace protests. But now that the war is over, I'll give him hell if I want to.

I don't like Mr. Bush. Didn't vote for him, won't vote for him. I will stand by that.

Mr. Tanker - Your right - Mr Jr had an idea. It was a good one.

but you see, Mr. Bush had an idea - and he wasn't going to listen to any one elses idea.

The only idea I can think of - do not vote Mr. Bush back in office.

I'm not a democrat, I just don't like Mr. Bush.

"Mr. Tanker - Your right - Mr Jr had an idea. It was a good one. but you see, Mr. Bush had an idea - and he wasn't going to listen any elses idea."-OkCityKid

I have to agree with Ok, I didn't have a say in what was to happen. I do not believe in Bush, is that what you would like me to say? I don't apologize for my beliefs, I will never back down from what I believe in, that is how everyone should be. So, Tanker, believe in what ypu do, I have no problem with that, and I will continue saying "Fuck Bush!" because that is how I feel. Anyone ignorant enough to think that there shouldn't be opposing oppinions are cursed to suffer in their own stupidity for the rest of their lives.
_Wes

'first of all why "f*** bush" this is stupid. I beleive in people having their own opinions, but that does not mean that when ever someone has their own ideas and the majority dislikes these ideas that they are bad or arrogant americans. bush is trying to make things better for americans. he obviusly knows more than you and i about all of americas problem. so stop making fun of him. we elected him and should respect his feelings. i think he did the world a wondeful liberty by killing saddams sons and making saddam run like a fucking baby. Sure you may dislike his ideas that does not make you unpatriodic, just means you have your own opinions. When people disagree this does not mean they are arrogant or mean and nasty, just means that they still fell like democracy works and we should back up the presedent in his opinions.'

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I don't mean to argue on my first couple of posts but you have got to be kidding me. What is it about Bush that makes you think he knows anything at all? His amazing verbal skills? His complete lack of historical knowledge? His tired policies that mimick Reagan so pathetically?

I do not consider this man to be intelligent or in the know of our problems. He is a rich socialite from a political family who has been given this opportunity through the apathy of American voters and his own birth right. I would go into a bunch of facts supporting my thoughts but they are obvious to someone who is not a blind worshiper of political figures. I respect your opinion but it sounds like my Mom when we discuss politics. She just says, "Oh, leave our dear president alone, he is president, he knows what he is doing." Oh yeah, no problem Mom!

Pick any topic you want, the economy, the war, his past, anything and I will be glad to prove to you that he has no idea what he is doing. He is an ideologue whose puppet strings are controlled by the Hawks that circle around him. He is like the village idiot that Repbulican strategists can use to further their own agenda. Name one thing he has proposed that is not some tired retread of past Republican presidents.

So, I respect your opinion of Bush and won't argue anymore, but please don't expect people to suspend their brains and leave everything in his capable hands. It just won't happen.

Again, I am willing to back up this comment with a discussion on any topic concerning Bush policies you want if you choose to.

Hope I didn't offend, jmho.

Aladinsane...
I agree with the majority of what you are saying, and I am especially irritated with those people who blindly follow a leader whom they have completely no idea of what he knows, or even who he is.
I do believe he knows a great deal about two things:
1. OIL-his family has been in the oil bussiness for three generations
2. History- he has his masters degree in History, curiously not political science, or Law?!

wesdawgy - Nice to know ya!

Masters in History huh? What history, Southern Dixieland History? Just kidding.

I find that most people who have that blind faith don't even have a clue about most of the issues. That is why they tend to make blanket statements of support like that.

I just refer to my quote on this one...

Wait a second...can we go back a bit? Am I this "Mr. Junior" character? I don't see anyone actually named Junior, so I'm just guessing.


Oh and by the way I was just expressing how I felt and was seeing if anyone agreed with me. I was not trying to clamp down on anyone's opinions or trying to get a bunch of people in here trying to make a point.

My proposal for a new party was just that, a proposal. Now please, would you nice, mature, HOTHEADS get yourselves under control.

Ok, I just read the rest of the posts AFTER I wrote that reply and now I sort of feel like an idiot.

I agree that Bush only made it into the presidency because of his political family. The way things are working right now makes the U.S. government look like a Monarchy. I'm surprised he didn't appoint his daddy a position in the cabinet.

Also, the President is just a normal person who has lots of money and good speech writers. Many of them were probably not as intelligent as your average college student.

Now before you rip on me about how there were plenty of smart presidents, keep in mind I said, "Many of them", not all.

Danipog - your third party idea is a good one. It has been heavily discussed at e-thepeople and it is believed that it is impossible to accomplish. They might be right, but I think it's worth a good try.

I liked Bush Sr. He had military experience. I don't think Bush Sr was wrong when he decided not to go into Baghdad the first time. That too was heavily debated at that time. I thought Bush Sr made the right decision. It is unfortunate that his own son felt his father made a mistake and decided to fix it. Worse, Bush Sr. did not believe enough in his own decision to try to stop his son.

Our economy is in a shambles (almost undoing everything the reform party fought for) and we are no more safer than before the war. Oh well - we have to go on.

RIght on Kid.

I'm so happy Sad Ham Insane's two sons are dead! I'll be even happier when Osama Bin Laden and Sad Ham Insane himself are killed!

My boss told us about that at work. I think that is great - I wish they would hurry up and get Saddam. You know I have mixed fillings about this whole thing. I just wished we hadn't of done it. I don't understand these people. Mothers hand they're children over to U.S. solders when we marched in there. That is a great act of devotional trust. And now we get rocks thrown at us. It was not worth it.

"So lets do the first part and pull together, start paying attention to those we elect and holding them accountable on election day, and supporting those who die for our ability to do all that safely from this hemisphere."
I couldn't agree with you more. I've had so many stones thrown at me, I have bruises head to toe. That is no lie. I went whole nights without sleeping. Go to Google and type in Okcitykid and hit your enter key. Way before the war started (and I did not vote for Bush). I tried to stop this thing. I wrote letters, made posts, created a web page. Some threw stones. But I told everybody that if the war started, we have to support our president. (Boy did I get stoned over that one) Trying to get everyone not to protest. You don't protest during a war, that's wrong. You protest before the war. We're so stupid. What good does it do to protest after the war starts. People just watch to much TV, they are so far from reality. If they really didn't want a war, why didn't they protest before the war? But ofcourse, maybe like me, they believed it really wouldn't happen. My son told me I was wrong, there would be a war, and he was right. But the war is over now, I don't have to support him anymore. You want an Idea - Here's an Idea: You know, all the money we spent on that war could have been spent on making this country oil independent. Once we are oil indepent. After that, we just all turn to Saddam and give him the finger. They would take him out of power in a heart beat, because he and all those other bad dictators over there wouldn't have the money to keep themselves in power. That is all we would have had to do and it would have worked. Anyways, I spent 14 years in the Navy - I earned my free speech. People just gonna have to throw stones at me, but I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say.

"RIght on Kid." Thanks

Decius: I can relate to the anger. I did not want that war. More and more we are seeing how wrong it was. Luckily the protesters didn't hurt anything. They were right, their timing was just off.

We survived vietnam - we'll probably survive this too. But we just can't keep making these mistakes. Who gave the president so much power - how did we let that happen? I guess congress made a mess of Vietnam. I don't know. We just don't vote for Bush and go on as best we can

"Decius you have once again snatched idiocy from the jaws of sanity. Kid is absolutely right about protestors needing to shut up during the war. If you went to war for a cause you felt worthy of fighting for(this is a hypathetical, not saying you would kill anyone because your the perfect world citizen) would be willing to put up with the name calling and rock throwing that our friend Kid put up with?"
Just because your willing to risk your life for something doesn't make your view correct. Iraki soldiers can be just as willing to fight and die if nescessary to protect their country from what they see as another crusade. I mean, hell, do you think patriotic Irakis like it when the US portrays Irak as part of the "axis of evil".

"And protestors do what they do because they protest everything, not because they actually have a solution...those who offer solutions are the ones who at the least run for office or lobby their elected officials on behalf of their cause."
Of course they provide alternatives! Its called not going to war! The Irak war was completely unescessary, no WMDs and a very cooperative Sadam meant that the US's vast military would have better used its ressources elsewhere.

"One little tid bit for the French kissing masses...the French were found to be in violation of international law by attempting a covert military action in another country without UN approval. The only reason this was found out by the rest of the world is that they botched the operation so badly that it got major attention in the country it took place in. Brazil wondered why French military types were in its borders without warning..they found out later some militant group had detained a French citizen that was a college classmate of the French UN representative. And that was the reason why France decided to sneek around in South America. What a bunch of two faced morons. French miltary...what's that?"
I never heard of this, which year? Any links? What was their goal? Though I should add during desert storm 1 the french were a valuable aide.

"We as a nation are no where near an oil shortage and research into cleaner burning fossil fuel biproducts is happening everyday. But like everything in technology and advancement we must be patient."
The Bush admin is not known for its interest in researching alternative fuels. It completely ignored the Kyoto treaties and is encouraging the US to continue being the single largest producer and consumer of oil in the world.

THIS SOLUTION CAN BE LONG AND BORING! READ WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO!

A better solution is to allow the people to vote on the declaration of war. I mean, people can't say our government is corrupt if we voted for it. A vote for war would go out to the polls 1-2 weeks after the request. People then go to the polls and vote on if they find it as a good idea or not. If they don't then the president can reinstate the vote once after new evidence is brought up. Also the congress can reinstant the vote once themselves. Then the House of Reps. can vote on whether they want to reinstate or not. All reinstatments must have new evidence brought with them so that we don't have them just asking again with the same info. The president's, the Congress', and the House of Reps.' reinstatments will be refreshed for every different declaration(I.E. If you instated voting to go to war with Canada. Then you gave up and voted to go to war with Mexico, then the 3 would get their reinstatments back)

The declaration of war vote will only be put to use if we are declaring war on a neutral country. If a country declares war on us, then of course no vote is needed. If there is a sign of provocation then all memebers including even the President if he is involved will then be charged with unjust war which could lead to a very very big penalty. Though this is a charge that the war is unjust. You can find that the provocation of the war as a just thing to do by a 51 memeber jury.

All CIA, FBI, and Special force operations won't be effected by this. Though, after they commit something and it is declassified, they will stand trial by a jury to see if what they did was right or wrong. The only penalty here is the loss of a job or just a suspension determining on the severity of the crime. If any of these angencies are used to provoke the war, then the unjust war charges can be brought against them.

Lastly, (I hope) you have to go throught process again for any new declaration of war.

Of course, this would be a pain in the ass for us to vote on and such.

There, I might have missed something. Reply and tell me what you think. But most of all tell me if I did miss something.