Human's Inevitable Downfall - Page 3

Hey, if an arab wants to do it, I won't say no. Though there is only one thing wrong with Al Queada people doing it, we kinda need someone that doesn't hate anyone, no matter what.

The "creation" of civilization (or what we know as such) was hinged on two very important technologies that defined the path mankind was to take for the next 7 thousand years: agriculture and writing.

Before these two technologies existed, humans lived as tribes, never over breeding, never consuming more than the land would yield naturally.

As man discovered how to measure the seasons and thus affect the yield of the land, the concept of PROPERTY was born. This land is better than that land, so I will build my city HERE and stay a while. Now that men can control the production of food, they will reproduce more numerously and the rate of consumption will increase exponentially as well.

As nearby sources are depleted, populations grow, and fertile lands turn into arid plains, or perhaps because just over the ridge there is a very fertile valley, the city expands, the early city-state.

Which brings us to the second technology, writing. To keep track of the seasons and all other matters, a code had to be created. We take it for granted in this modern world, but almost NOBODY was literate. It was almost like magical, being able to decode the symbols on the tablet.... and whoa! what happened? All of the sudden, those who knew how to decipher the code could tell those that DIDN'T know what the tablet said. And who said it. Hey, this tablet is the word of GOD!!! And I'm gonna tell YOU what it says... it says that I, the priest, are his representative on earth and we must do his bidding.

Power structures evolved.

And an old, ancient memory in the human soul was forgotten then. And we've been spending seven thousand years on trying to forget. By telling ourselves these silly stories.

But all will be revealed soon.

And those that survive will laugh at man's folly, and at this whole thing called the "human experiment".

Most people think being civilized includes several qualities such as being religious and being part of a political culture and/or society. Otherwise, we are considered uncivilized and do not have a civilization. Most likely and unfortunately, if humans ultimately self destruct religious zealotry or political jingoism will be the cause. Therefore, I'll take being uncivilized, or at the least change the emphasis.

"Therefore, I'll take being uncivilized, or at the least change the emphasis."
Uncivlized? Nah, I'd rather not die of infection at birth or of smallpox or of starvation or of thirst or of some large animal or because I fought the nearby tribe (proto-political jingoism )

An often misquoted saying comes to mind 'money is the root of all evil' but the quote says that 'the love of money is the root of all evil', the point being how you come by it and / or how you use it. So we could extend that to those things of the modern world.
To project the misconception that if it weren't for civilization we would have these things would be absurd. That modern conviences might have developed at a slower rate would probably be true but implying that people would remain ignorant is not. The plagues of Europe came from the unsanitary conditions in cities, not because of natural habitat.
The "creation" of civilization, the teachings of our society creates a lot of misunderstanding. For example most religions started from oral traditions because they developed pior to writing but being able to recite also gives greater familiarity. I was rather surprised to learn the ancient city of the patriarch in Jewish Traditions was the site of library of some 10,000 clay tablets, not some stone age dwellings. In the story of Noah, he is given instructions; a set of numbers had to exist as well as a set of measures otherwise the instructions would have been meaningless.

What i reckon is, war is a necessary part of any modern 'civilization'. This is because, with the massive increase in productivity, luxury commodities and leisure time, the human race is finding much more time to procreate. Add to this the rapidly evaporating sexual morals of our societies and you have a guaranteed to rise recipe for massive overpopulation of this planet. The most effective and fastest reducer of population is the land war - a war fought by infantry in order to gain more territory for ones' country - lebensraum, as Hitler called it. World War One was the most effective modern overpopulation solver - without it, we would probably have caused our own extinction by the turn of the new millenium, which, obviously, has passed without mishap. Weapons of mass destruction, as Mr. Bush has not found in Iraq (sorry, couldn't resist that), generally DECREASE rather than increase the total number of deaths caused by a war - they shorten it by allowing one side to win. This may all seem rather cold blooded, but it is true.

Not that I disagree but I see that because of rapid change (growth) in man's conceptions about the nature of our existence has led to a wide spread lack adaptation and balance in each generation. Industrialization and technology has not been balanced by moderation in its growth. To much of anything can be hazardous; environmental pollution being one such hazard and mentioned earlier overpopulation for another. We need to slow ourselves down a bit, all this spinning around has produced an inflated economy as well. I know this isn't a popular view but it may be a necessity for our survival?

All these thoughts leads to an idea that it is the lust for power which drives how humans seem to be on a self-destructive course. The ultimate power is the all-consuming control to rule and dictate who or what to worship and who or what to follow. This may be the reason we've had so many religions and governments. It does not lead to the idea of world peace. It is destructive. It leads to the irrational concept that people need such governing and belief. Isn't this truly uncivilized? Isn't it also the model for evil?

Do we need such misguided power? We all know people who don't want to, don't care to or maybe can't think or learn for themselves how to be an involved citizen. Unfortunately, this comprises the majority in the world. It is sometimes forced on them because the powers don't allow them to learn and think for themselves. However, it is the other group (who do have the freedom and liberty to learn and know better) who choose not to be involved which is worse. They would rather have others do it for them.

When we limit ourselves, i. e. not reading, learning and being involved, we fall into a pattern and state of oblivion. It is an atrophy of the mind, which leads to chaos. For example, the irrational concept to use people as sacrifices, who become human shields or bombs. They obey orders thinking or believing it is what their leaders and/or god want them to do. Isn't this uncivilized and an ultimate evil, to 'lead' some on a course of destruction? Isn't the alternative, having no limitations in reaching our potentials, the basis to be civilized and good?

We've created the concepts of good and evil. What some haven't learned is the differences. Notice how some still admire and follow the evil of Nazism. Or, that Hitler may have had a "good idea" in his genocide of the Jews.

I hope I haven't traveled to far off course of the thread's original statment.

The human race alone isn't even civilzed. The more knowledge we gain the more dangerous and destructive we become. On earth we are all people,all one in the same with genetic differences. But yet we all fight and create wars between each other. The basic human instinct is fear. With fear comes chaos and disorder....and the chain goes on. So unless we can eliminate fear, we are bound to fall and be the victims of our own success and knowledge.

"What i reckon is, war is a necessary part of any modern 'civilization'. This is because, with the massive increase in productivity, luxury commodities and leisure time, the human race is finding much more time to procreate."
By your theory, the richest countries should be experiencing the most growth in population. They are not. When (if?) the 3rd world devellops economically, the "problem" will be solved.

"Add to this the rapidly evaporating sexual morals of our societies and you have a guaranteed to rise recipe for massive overpopulation of this planet. The most effective and fastest reducer of population is the land war"
I'd disagree. Disease is generally a far greater killer. Though modern war has the potential, there are better ways of stopping overpopulation.
Such as the sexual education of kids (I can hear the puritans gasping) and the advanced piece of modern technology known as the condom.

"- a war fought by infantry in order to gain more territory for ones' country - lebensraum, as Hitler called it. World War One was the most effective modern overpopulation solver - without it, we would probably have caused our own extinction by the turn of the new millenium, which, obviously, has passed without mishap."
Bollox. World War One killed far less people the WW2 and the death in WW2 led to the "baby boom", hardly a help for any population problems.
Yet again destroying your theory.

"Weapons of mass destruction, as Mr. Bush has not found in Iraq (sorry, couldn't resist that), generally DECREASE rather than increase the total number of deaths caused by a war - they shorten it by allowing one side to win. This may all seem rather cold blooded, but it is true."
At least your last statement is true.
The rest is nonesense.

I don't understand everyone's concern with overpopulation. The two most overpopulated countries (India and China) aren't doing badly. Granted they aren't obscenely rich like us, but they are develloped and there is little fear of real misery.
Any problem today IMO has more to do with the lack of thinking, education, openeness and conern with greater things within our societies.

"The human race alone isn't even civilzed."
Its all relative. We are more civilized then any other being on this planet. We are capable (to an extent) of suppressing emotions, creating complex societies, rules and laws, understanding the world around us and we can deal with purely abstract concepts.


"The more knowledge we gain the more dangerous and destructive we become."
Only natural, I don't understand how it could be otherwise.

"On earth we are all people,all one in the same with genetic differences."
Hence, we aren't really the same. We are similar, but not the same.

"But yet we all fight and create wars between each other. The basic human instinct is fear. With fear comes chaos and disorder....and the chain goes on. So unless we can eliminate fear, we are bound to fall and be the victims of our own success and knowledge."
Fear we will never eliminate. However, we may eliminate any fear of other men. Liberal democracies have fought the least among themselves in the XXth century then any other gov type. All the big despotic powers are dead (traditional monarchies, fascism and communism) and liberal democracies reign, we are in the Age of Peace.

-y far disease is the greatest killer!...never said war is...yuor trying to read between the lines!
-h ya...slave kids...being whipped doesn't seem like a problem because of over population?
-ame species !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-peace comes b4 war!

"-y far disease is the greatest killer!...never said war is...yuor trying to read between the lines! "
I was telling the other poster.

"-h ya...slave kids...being whipped doesn't seem like a problem because of over population? "
Not a "serious" one. By serious I mean mass starvation, killing by disease or war etc.. India and China do not have these problems and are develloping rapidly. Any problem with kids in these countries cannot last.

"-peace comes b4 war!"
Who is going to declare war on the democracies? Even Hitler's Reich and the Soviet Bloc fell before the Liberal Democracies and none of the current despots have anywhere near the power they had.

Stuff doesn't always repeat itself. Do you think just becuse hitler and the rest failed that the next person or revlution will?
Design flaws were part of there mistake. Some people realize that and will make sure they do not make mistakes!

"Design flaws were part of there mistake. Some people realize that and will make sure they do not make mistakes!"
And people who let Hitler rise to power in the first place have also learned and will make sure it does not happen again.

YA just like Bin right?