God = The Universe - Page 5

I would like to see where you have drawn the claim that the specific aim of science is to dispel faith. Superstition, yes. But superstition is not faith.

The meaning of the universe is not the sole jurisdiction of any pursuit. It is a valid question.

Even Stephen Hawking refused in his latest work in which he found God to be superfluous in creation, to state that this proved there was no such thing as God. He knows the boundaries of his discipline.

You make many assumptions about faith, and even religion (though these two are separate things.)

I am an atheist myself (not agnostic, atheist), and even I find your attempt to proselytize utilizing science to be errant. So much so, that I think you are proving REZBerg's point. Science does not proselytize.

Faith is Superstition. Faith is the belief that sustains religion and other types of superstition.

The meaning of the universe is not a valid question. Prove to me otherwise!

When I say Faith I'm not talking about having trust. We all have to do that to a point but with reluctance.

For example I trust my doctor to a point that he will not prescribe me a dangerous drug. That trust does not stop me looking it up and finding it out for myself. And from day to day I trust that my car will work, but that does not stop me from putting petrol in it and get it maintained regularly, and have a contingency in case it won't work.
Faith with a capital F is wholly different. Faith is having a belief without proof.

I have never proselytised for science. I don't now what you are talking about.

I've never claimed the science is anything more than a means to describe the universe.

If meaning can follow description then in a limited way science provides whatever it can in that direction. And it is piss poor at offering social meanings.

The rest is just imagination and speculation.

To question the meaning of the universe, or even our everyday existence is accepted as being an a priori question. Keep in mind that meaning is not the same thing as purpose.

Faith, that is the belief that there is meaning to life, is not the same thing as a religious explanation, dogma or superstition. One can believe that there is more to this than our understanding without succumbing to any of these.

We are having this present dispute because you are claiming that science is more than a means to describe the universe. You are stating that science is a means to dispute philosophical questions involving meaning, equivocating it to the sole adjudicator of truth. I am not buying that.

As far as proselytizing. you are doing that right now. I will defer to the judgment of our readers on this matter.

Again, this said from one who has studied science, and is an atheist.

If you want know what "a priori" actually means, you would know that does not make it valid. It only makes it a question; a question which reason is not able to answer. In fact calling this question a priori adds nothing whatever to the thread.
Faith is not specifically a belief that this question has an answer. Faith is the quality of humans that make them accept dogma and superstition, without question. Thus the 'question" of meaning in the Universe is decide by someone else, and believed by those that have faith. If I have faith in my doctor it is for a series of reasons. Faith in dogma has no need of reason. The baseline is empty of justification. That's why they call it Faith, as the faithful as so keen on reminding us.

You might do well to stop putting word in my mouth. For example;"You are stating that science is a means to dispute philosophical questions involving meaning, equivocating it to the sole adjudicator of truth"
Read back and read what I ACTUALLY said please. Then we can talk about this.
You can "buy" what you like, but don't reject something that is not even on the table.

I'm not proselytising shit.

Get off your high horse and stop telling lies about me. If you have something to say then back it up!
I'm saying this as an atheist, who has studied science and a lot more besides.
I know the limits of science and have less faith in it than you seem to think.
As for deferring judgement of our readers. I think it is just you and me and an alien from Alpha Centauri.

quote:

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I think it is just you and me and an alien from Alpha Centauri.

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With over 805 views, I think it might be more. "..alien from Alpha Centauri"? Oh, that was polite. I think that REBerg has showed himself to be open minded.

Hobbes, I like debating with you, but you are no longer debating. You are ranting. I think that I am done with this thread. Your mind is already made up.

for me god is connected with everything. I dont find myself as a believer in a certain religioun but i tend to take pieces and put together my own GOD

Hobbes: “It is beyond your ability to make a statement that suggests anything about "everybody". You can't know about everybody unless you are omnipotent.”

Hobbes: “When I say Faith I'm not talking about having trust. We all have to do that to a point but with reluctance.”

Must I be omnipotent to make a statement about “everybody,” yet you need no such qualification to use “we all”?

Is “trust” a less emotionally charged and therefore more palatable synonym than“faith” to describe what is not known?

Is this whole shootin' match based on semantics?

Hobbes, my most important question: Am I the “alien from Alpha Centauri”? If your answer is “yes,” how on Terra did you correctly identify my home solar system?

REBerg.
I was making a normative point.
You were making an empirical point.
Try to think about things more carefully.

Because you look exactly like Nigel my invisible friend

Hobbes Choice: “I was making a normative point.
You were making an empirical point.
Try to think about things more carefully.

Because you look exactly like Nigel my invisible friend”

Puny Earthling.

Faith and trust, within the context of what has been posted here, are interchangeable. Neither of our omnipotent statements are more or less normative or empirical than the other.

Try to think about things more openly. Perhaps you should pay more attention to Nigel. He probably makes some excellent points.

Oh dear,
your alien logic seems at fault - perhaps it is you grasp of the English language.
Allow me to invite you to consider the following review of statements made.

You said; "Everyone has faith in something." This is an empirical assertion. I can tell you that I do not have faith in something. QED, the statement is false for "everyone". No statement claiming a truth for all can ever be made, as that degree of information is only available to the omnipotent.

Now please examine what I said:"When I say Faith I'm not talking about having trust. We all have to do that to a point but with reluctance."
A thing we have to do, is not a thing I am claiming people actually do. This argument is in the normative form, it is not an empirical claim in any sense. In other words it is what we ought to do, not what everyone does .

Oh Dear, Indeed,

When I started this thread, I had high hopes of opening a dialog which looked at the edges of what is known and tried to imagine what might be. While I do appreciate the more open-minded posts from thx1137, Theory, theevolutionis, pickup and adventuremrkt, “God=The Universe has, unfortunately, come down to picayune points of grammar.

For one who states that he “does not have faith in something,” HC, you have a tenacious faith in your own convictions. You know precisely where the walls of your reality are located and take comfort in their lack of windows. I, however, am unable to accept such limitations.

As much fun as the exchange has been, the time has come for me to turn my attention to more productive activities. I wish you well. May your views continue to serve you.

If I have faith in my "convictions" then it is no more than having trust in reason and evidence.
I object to you and your implication that I am not open minded. There is a difference between believing any shit you want and having an open mind.
For me skepticism is a base line. All information needs to be assessed by a skeptical process else we might as well just give up and believe in fairies and aliens from Alpha-Centauri.
As for speculation, I love it, especially with a joint. But it is foolish to invite idle speculation into the realm of fact.
If you want truth, then the church doors are always open to open minded people.
Don't forget to put some cash in the plate on the way out.