Proving God Existence - Page 2

OK Islam,
I understand (kinda) what youre saying however....I need a clearer idea or the initial part of this proof. Could you explain set one and 2 further? is there anyway you can make up some sort of easily understandable metaphor? ha jk. I understand how the proof attempts to prove that infinity and finite cannot coexistbut i feel like there are probably more variables that exist that we dont know about.
"The conclusion is our world is finite and was created" Why doest finite = God? and infinite equal no god?
I do not agree with this. Have you ever heard of entanglement theory? 1 particle existing in two places at the same time?

Ok I've thought about this some more and I feel like Ive had a personal breakthrough. Infinite and Finite is really one and the same....there is really no such thing as finite if there is not existance outside of that finite thing. The only reason that we call something finite is because its a limited set amount in a world where there could be more. Saying that the universe is finite implies that there could be more....when outside of that finite universe is nothing.....(nothing is not empty space....nothing is nothing).....so whether EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS is finite or infinite is a moot point. This is nonduality. Much different than duality. There are all sorts of little things that we assume before we do math. If there is nothing outside of the universe.....maybe thats the wrong way to put it....if there is nothing outside of everything that exists......then still, all you have is what exists.....whether its finite or infinite. I personally believe that nothing holds endless possibility.....I mean something came out of nothing a long time ago. how that happened? who knows. That is the miracle. .....that anything exists at all.

I seriously doubt that god is this thing outside of us....that there is a creator....I think that the drive to find a creator is fear based because people in general fear death and think that when they die they might actually experience non existence....but you cant experience non existence. Non existence doesn't exist. therefor we go on forever....I hope that our consciousness experiences something magnificent ....we have been here forever and will reawaken to this knowledge once we are no longer convinced that we are our experiences in this lifetime. we are energy with a concious

Im inclined to think that as long as ppl believe then for them yes god exists.Without belief god has no purpose.

Set 1 and Set 2 are just grouping of events (assuming that there are infinite events) we can just label some of them as past event i..e -1, -2 where -1 mean happened during the last hour and so on

and infinite events are the other set
It is proved that Set 2 can not exist at all

Actually any thing to be Infinite is impossible, only in concept, but in reality NO

Finite universe means it did not exist then existed
Which proved that an external parameter must cause this existence
As if there is nothing, it will remain as nothing

entanglement theory?
It does not mean that a particle can exist at tow location, it is just an approximation that its location can not be determined

This part of the proof, proves the existence of a creator
Proving the true God will follow

Im pretty sure that entanglement theory is finding that a particle can exist in two places at once.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C005775/Observations/particle.html

Why is infinite impossible? if you are talking time wise..then you are saying it hasnt always been here so something other than it must have created it. I think there are a lot of assumptions in this thought. We are assuming that everything that "exists" ...we are aware of. That everything is on a time space continuum. I think that its pointless to even try to prove that god exists and no offense to you but kind of arrogant to think that we could. WE only have 5 senses that pick up only small spectrums of what exists. but I digress. back to the infinite thing. if there was nothing before the universe existed.....then there was nothing before the universe existed...........that NOTHING doesnt count as something....its nothing. its not empty space, its not silence, its not darkness....those are all concepts......its nothing. therefore the universe has always existed. its infinite. there is no such thing as finite. There is no such thing as NOTHING. Thats the point. There is no nothing that came before the universe. This makes the argument invalid. infinite =finite....its all the same and it doenst matter. nothing created us. The only reason that we can experience "nothing" is because we experience the lack of certain things one at a time here in life while in a space time continuum while still experiencing other things. Ex. the lights are off but I can still hear...etc. I think that when we die we will understand this. I mean....why are you trying to prove the existence of an exterior god in a finite universe? what if an infinite universe with all energy being God is just as magnificent if not more. Its absolutely mind blowing.

No offense, but what I understood from your post is "God doesn't exist because I said so, why prove it?", which is completely wrong.

God does exist, and I can show you some evidence of his existence in a few minutes.

Btw, explain your infinite=finite thing, didn't get it all.

Here's the link:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Scientific-Evidence-of-the-Existence-of-God

Are you talking about my post? How did you get that? I absolutley believe in God and have stated that. I don't believe in an exterior God that is seperate from all things. I dont believe in a specific religion's God. I think its all the same God. I feel like I know this....I feel like we are all just different computer programs in a universe of information that was created by us and we are all part of God. Im not stating this as fact. Im just sharing my thoughts.

I have no other way to explaing the finite=infinite thing than to say this......I feel like infinite and finite is the same thing really because either way...its all that exists....there is nothing outside of it. Islam said that infinity really cant exist...and i argued the opposite that finite cant exist......finite implies that there is an end and at that end is nothing.....but if there is nothing outside of infinity then all that there is is existance.....because nothing is nothing. so the universe is all that there is...there is nothing outside of it... I dont know....maybe my thinking is wrong. You really could argue either way.....if you eventually get to nothing outside of the universe then Islam is right and there is no such thing as infinity...but I feel like the flaw there is that there is no nothing outside of the universe....because nothing is nothing. Its very confusing to me....but i keep coming back to this. I think that the brain tends to think of nothing as something....but nothing doesnt exist. its nothing. So my argument is this.....for something to be finite there has to be nothing outside of it....but nothing doesnt exist. empty space exists....but nothing doesnt exist. thats why its called nothing. am i crazy or does this make sense?

I just read the scientific evidence of the existence of god..interesting. I feel like it is just proving how the things written in religious doctrine could be true.
"Science and Religion today appear to be battling each other, each trying to prove one's own existence as the truth, and the other's as a lie. " Unfortunately this is true a lot of the time.....but here lately things have been changing in this department. Im not speaking about religious doctrines...or proving stories really did occur.....Im talking about quantum physics. I dont think its necesary to choose anymore. I think that science backs up spirituality (not religion necessarily) and vice versa. I just feel like people in general have this certain idea of HOW god should exist and if he doesnt exist in that specific way then they are dissapointed. Personally I believe that the mind couldnt even fathom what God or death is like .....Our imaginations arent that great. This is my favorite Einstein quote
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'universe,' a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
Watch this video when you get a chance. http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.
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I firmly believe in God, as it is the only explanation for creation of the universe(s) that I know of (In addition, it seems fairly obvious to me.). I believe that a being outside of existence created the universe(s), but does not interfere with it and therefore does not have to be intelligent (divine intervention invalidates the laws of physics). But you can prove that only verses containing life are possible.

All objects and events without observable effects past, present, or future do not exist. This is a corollary of cause and effect. Therefore, any universe that does not contain life does not exist, as it contains no beings that can observe effects. If you support the idea of multiple universes, this would mean that the chance of life developing in a universe is 100%.

Even without intelligent design, a universe will have life.

Are there any holes in my theory? I'm open to constructive criticism.

I agree with the observer being necesary for something to exist..... I believe that this is why we exist. we are the observer. I dont believe in a creator thats seperate because I dont believe in a beginning or end to the universe. I think that we cannot think in any other way but linear so this is hard to comprehend so I dont really bother trying. I dont belive that divine intervention invalidates the laws of physics because I believe that the laws of physics are devine. Life itself is a miracle. it is devine....in my opinion.

To MichaelM: Define what life is to you please?
To Karmapolisa: I enjoyed the video... Very insightful...

To me, any living thing should be able to
a) sense and observe the world around it,
b) be able to manipulate the world around it, and
c) have either instincs and/or the ability to make decisions.

The Last Prophet on Planet Earth (The Prophet in Isaiah 11)is finally going to prove to all men that God exists.

How does he prove this? This Prophet is going to cause all Human Death to cease worldwide.

Do you think that particles and matters around us and in us are aware of our existence ?