Aetheists Are Illogical - Page 3

It was unfortunate of me to say categorically that God doesn't exist. For assuredly, the absolute possibility of God cannot be denied. But then, neither can the possibility of unicorns or fairies, or indeed anything. The proposition, "God might exist" is enitrely empty, for it is tantamount to saying: "God is beyond the province of reason, and his existence is therefore not susceptible to rational justification. Thus, we cannot exclude any possible definition of Him (to do so would be to know something about Him). And so it follows that God might exist, however I define him". Do you see the problem here? The distinction between a right and a wrong definition has been dissolved, and therefore talking about Him is entirely senseless. It is not, of course, inconceivable that theological propositions will contain a modicum of truth, but that will be purely by accident, and not by dint of any putative reasoning process. Empirical investigation has recourse only to what is yielded by immediate experience: everything else we a draw a veil around, and condemn to the ingnominy of 'metaphysics'.

To recount, when I say that God doesn't exist, this doesn't tacitly suppose a definition of him. All I say is that none of the esablished definitions correspond to anything which can be vouchsafed in experience. I'll admit that these definitions are manifold, and far too numerous to detail in one sweeping exegesis. But there are basic assumptions about God (about his being the 'first cause', or his omnipotence, or his perfection, ad infinitum) which serve to confer a rough consensus. Very rarely, though, does any appraisal discharge an axiomatic 'definition' of him. Eg, for his Ontological Argument, St Anselm didn't feel the need to define God first. Instead, he took some of His reputed aspects and explored the possibility that it would be self-contradictory to deny them. This is exactly the reverse of what I have done.

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The distinction between a right and a wrong definition has been dissolved, and therefore talking about Him is entirely senseless.

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Indeed, claiming factual knowledge of god beyond its mere possibility, especially the espousing of religious "definitions", is equally faulty in logic as denial of god's possible existance, whatever god is.

A man once told Socrates a fact and Socrates replied "well how do we know that?" The man gave a reply and Socrates continued by asking him "well how do we know that?" The man gave another reply which caused Socrates to repeat his reply yet again. This continued several more times and eventually the man couldn't reply to his constant questioning and he realized the lesson Socrates was trying to teach him. That we know nothing.

Whether God exists or doesn't exist doesn't really seem to matter. It's not like if you believed in God and one day you realized hey wait a second God can't exist dam I really should have murdered those people on the bus then. Or if you realized wait God must exist well i'll let these people go this time then. This is what I think is the most important point that whether he does or doesn't exist it shouldn't change what you do and who you are.

But the question is still interesting to discuss and as to whether God exists I would say that he/she probably doesn't mostly because of what man has been able to acomplish. It's obvious that we are not Gods. But, look at the things we have acomplished from the computer I am typing on to the nuclear bomb. If we went back in time to the middle ages with these inventions I could see the people of that time thinking we were Gods even though we obviously weren't.

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This is what I think is the most important point that whether he does or doesn't exist it shouldn't change what you do and who you are.

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It shouldn't, but for most, it does

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Aetheists Are Illogical

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Atheism is the only system that looks at the universe through logical analysis thats why its not called faith.

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Hi guys, I know that some of you are atheists so I was wondering if you guys could explain why you think there is no God.

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Darwinism is a good start so is Bertrands teapot theory - there is not one singular argument against the existence of god.

If your looking for a recommendation which provides an excellent analysis of these arguments and in greater detail I would suggest "An anthology of Atheism and rationalism".

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I was thinking the other day about how complex the universe is. The essence of existence, how the universe expands and contracts, what light is, how the human body functions and evolved to where it is today, how planets formed, how flowers and roots system work, what an atom is made of, it all seems just a little too perfect for it all to be an accident. I mean there has to be a creator to all of this. So if you're an atheist, please explain why so.

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Super String theory and the big bang are good places to start in regards to the formation and compexity of the universe.

Hey I'm Christian. I totally agree with your question. Sometimes it is good to ask the athiest what his belief is. Thanks for what your doing, keep up the good work.

Could be the jerk here and ask why YOU believe there is/has to be a God, but that's not the topic at hand.


But is there really any good reason why I should be lead to believe there is a "God" just because there's all these things we can't explain? Are we so shallow and don't believe in ourselves that much that if we can't understand it, then it must be something of an unknown's doing?

Just about everything we set out minds to, we can physically and mentally see or 'solve' what we want to know.... but God or a supreme being. Sure people claim they've had contact, but was anyone else around who also may believe see it at that moment too? most likely not. What I'm trying to get at is that if you believe in something so much and you want it to be true so badly your mind seems like it tends to trick itself to mold to your will. And from any tiny possible thing that might pertain to "god's doing" people who have the same beliefs will trick themselves as well.

Every read or heard of " The Crucible" ? I'm thinking this is something along those lines as far as believing what others say about a certain thing they strongly believe in. Also with a coupled fear of the "unknown".


But in the end, I could care less if there is a God or not. I am the most honest and caring person most people will ever meet and I don't think I need anyone or anything to preach to me about it and bribe me with eternal life and have all my 'sins' washed away. I'm more than capable of CHOOSING from what the established right and wrong is.

But it raises the question, If I continue to be the way I am now with my passive and warm-hearted self, will I still be accepted into the lord's kingdom? Because if not, and I am turned away even though I carried out a good peaceful life, then I would rather go back to earth or go to hell. As far as I know, "satan" would accept me no matter who I am or what I believe.

Decius- "Such a person, if a person ever existed, would be so devoid of humanity that they would almost have no capacity to empathize."

I'm not sure if I agrewe with this.. What if the bases for our huminity is primal rather than learned. Is there any evidence of a human that has never been introduced to religion would make it up in his or her head? I was just wondering.. If not, then would that make them less human?

so to clarify, it is definetly true to say that it is human nature to assume an all-powerful being then. Right?

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the concept of God is the glue that holds everything together. Without it, there is no need for morality for we are all disjointed entities.

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This is what MugenNoKarayami kept saying, and I still disagree.

Morality is little more than common law. Some of which is common sense, some is what generations have learned through trial and error.

Most people prefer happiness and life over misery and death, with or without the belief in or even the actual existance of any god.

A sense of purpose, well, that's a whole other story.

And yes, as is, in one sense, we are disjointed. Trapped in our own heads. But this is but one aspect of a greater truth, we are still all the same energy, and we may be capable of transcending our current barriers, we may have been able to do so in the past as well.

A hive or "Borg" collective mentality is evidenced in earthly creatures abound, we may have chosen isolation or devolved even, perhaps forcibly.

If we were not disjointed, then would god not be the glue?

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so to clarify, it is definetly true to say that it is human nature to assume an all-powerful being then. Right?

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I would say that it is true to say that if is human nature to assume a power greater than himself created himself and this universe.

Maybe the concept of God is a logical step in the road of human evolution.

In early civilizations there were many gods with their own specializations and attributes but slowly and surely they all pretty much dwindled down to the one vehement God we know today.

Keep following the process and what do you get? No God, just existence.

The sad part about it all is that it isn't a pleasant truth and I find it completely understandable that many religious followers cling to their beliefs with such impenetrable hope so as to label sense and reason as the enemies of mankind... yes, the very things that gave us our comfortable place in a cold and impartial universe.

If we look at things this way then we shouldn't look at religious followers as enemies but as atheists who aren't yet mentally ready to plunge forth into the deep.

The colors we "atheists" are showing here are not what a higher breed of human kind should be showing. We are compassionate reasonable creatures and here I see almost anything but.

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Keep following the process and what do you get? No God, just existence.

The sad part about it all is that it isn't a pleasant truth

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Why is it not pleasant? Having withdrawl symptoms? Doubts in your doubts?

It's just that the atheist and agnostic point of view is more responsibility and much less magical and wondrous. Think back to when you were a kid, didn't everything seem to have a glowing aura and a sense of infinite possibility? This is how I perceive any religious feeling to be. At what point does one come into a mature sobriety? Of course there isn't a point but more of an easing into.

The fact that there isn't yet any definitive evidence for or against a god would put atheists and agnostics in more of a teenage state as opposed to the child state that is religious belief.

Religious believers, like children, are completely dogmatic and disdainful of intelligent assistance. Like children, religous believers must be shown through logical process why they are wrong. The reason this is all so frustrating is because as of now there is no definitive logical process, only little bits of evidence here and there.

By the way, the question of God's existence and life and death is a HUGE question and will probably take centuries or maybe even millennia given the human race doesn't revert back to those stale, obstinate (traditional) ways.

So, to argue with a believer about his faith and the existence of God with our given knowledge is almost exactly the same as arguing with a child and not being able to prove that they're wrong. It's tiresome and pointless and most times turns into crying and tantrum.

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It's just that the atheist and agnostic point of view is more responsibility and much less magical and wondrous. Think back to when you were a kid, didn't everything seem to have a glowing aura and a sense of infinite possibility?

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I think Science provides something far more magical, wondrous, and with an infinite sense of possibility. Perhaps (using your analogy) Religion does for kids, what Science does for adults. But some adults just don't want to let go of a cherished fairytale...

The irony being that when you dip into the sheer wonder of Science (Quantum Physics for eg.) it appears SO magical that you could almost be persuaded to believe in God all over again, LOL!
(which BTW certainly does NOT support Creationism and the ridiculous attempt to update a stale fairytale)

Chiron beat me to the point of my question for you Chris.

You've simply got it all backwards. The mystery and wonder begins once the training wheels of religion come off, once your eyes finally open to infinite possibility once blinded to by faith in a dependancy in the beliefs of others.

Chris, we have barely managed to leave the surface of one planet in the entire known universe, peering from the edge of one spec of cosmic dust into the vastness of infinite oblivion, and that's only "outer" space, not to mention inner and micro and macro, this does not provide a sense of infinite possibility to you?

The sheer concept of infinity itself allows for the existance of all things in all combinations.

I think your defeatist attitude comes in part due to another problem with religion and a dependancy in it.

You perhaps fear that if there isn't a religious answer than death is the end and life is pointless.

What many fail to understand is that we are not faced with only the two possibilities of heaven/hell or nothing. We just don't know what death brings, that in itself allows for infinite possibility.

Religion and nothingness are but two assertions of equally limited and closed minded views of infinity.

What you should seek, perhaps, is to harness the power of belief without the restriction religious dogma, which does not have to dismiss the common sense attempted to be claimed by said dogma, this is the key to our advancement.

Look into the placebo affect and try to grasp what that means in terms of how much you are in control of yourself, what powers you hold within you. Then try to fathom that kind of power pointed outwards, your imagination and conciousness expanded beyond your physical boundaries.

Human technology and development to date is but the infant stage of our ability to create and shape the physical world around us.

I think another trapping point of confusion and fear comes from a misconception of the terms selfish and selfless.

But what good can you do others if you do not take proper care of yourself?