What's Worth Dying For? - Page 3

My daughters.

A cause whose current and future actions are greater than mine could ever be. The ends must justify the means.

So the end of your life is only worth it if your life could never do something greater than what you ended it for?

So you would not die for love then. But the idea of a love greater than anything you could ever experience.

Tell me, do you think there is anything worth dying for? Specifically.

The question of whether love is worth dying for, is not unconditional. For some, the issue is a conflict between self value VS value of your loved one, and their value of life. There are limitations, such as if you die, your relationship of love is lost for yourself, but not neccersarilly for your loved one towards you. Love is stronger than death even though it can't prevent death from happening; that even though death is inevitable, no matter how hard death tries it can't separate people from love. So if we consider this context, then love can't take away our memories either. In the end, life is stronger than death. If it comes to the instinctual event that to risk dying will guarrantee saving your loved one then, for me, it is worth it. lol how farcical does that sound!

quote:

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What's Worth Dying For?

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The revolution and for the international proletariat.

Anything and everything you truly believe in.

LOve--may it be love or country or someone so dear to you.

"The only thing worth dying for is death."

Well said. I may sound like a bit of a selfish ego-cynical snob, but I cant think of any reason to want to die.(except for the above) Certainly not love. Love is already a selfish emotion, so for me to die for love is just suicide. To die for principles or beliefs, real bad. For others, think about it this way, how would you feel for the rest of your life if someone close to you died for you. Do you really want to leave that behind? Since there is no proof yet we can see the living from the grave your good deed goes unfelt or seen by you. Why die when you cant feel the gratification or even pat your ownself on the back; self gratification is just as selfish as altruism too.

I like to think nothing we do is ever innocent.

"I like to think nothing we do is ever innocent."

Off-Topic

Anyone who enjoys thinking a certain thing and decides that they will leave out information in the way they think just so they can keep that state of mind up, anyone who denies information so they stay (Mmm, irony) innocent to what is actually going on, is a very pathetic individual and will never experience true emotion.

I think I misread incorrect for innocent, did you change it? My thoughts are the still the same, "... aren't ever innocent or incorrect." I don't see it as a naive response to life. Quite the opposite. That misread underlines my sentiment.

It spars with the other response too:
" true emotions" and the assesment that an individual becomes pathetic.

To me both true or incorrect are judgments we make based on a need or a want for a final answer and hence a final method of aquiring so too. Ruled by passion and naive to what is really going on. I tend to take a more naturalistic point of view on life. When we make decisions or judgments we assert our opinion from a finite point of ourselves, our minds, that makes us hardly innocent. If we can only act in a way that is consistant with cause and effect, then all we do is hardly incorrect.

One thing is for sure, this is leading off topic, I'll start a separate post later to elaborate.

No it isn't. We are finding out why you would not die for something. The logic behind your statement. We are still very much on topic.

To say that nothing we do is innocent you assume that everyone is fully aware of all the conseqeunces of their actions.

Hypothetical-

I said to my girlfreind the other day that I loved her. From her last relationship she was hurt very badly and she loved him. I did not know that. When I told her that I love her it hurt her. I, innocently, hurt her.

You are saying that I did not hurt her in innocence.

Is that about right? I'm just not too sure of where you are coming from and I'm trying to clear that up.

Actually no. I am responding from the meaning of innocence in the context of responsibility. We each are part of the determinants in which we form and react to our emotions. To wit, we are always responsible from that perspective. I think what gets in the way when discussing emotions and the such is the insinuation of purpose or reason. Lets leave that out for now.

(I am going to respond to both posts, so I apologize Aw for speaking of you in third person )

Aw's anecdote is a good example to try to clarify. He was clearly expressing his emotion from his perspective of the relationship. He was reacting to his feeling for her. I think in reality he has more to worry about than feeling bad about any hurting. Each have inward feelings they are responding to, to him its his love for her. For her, his admission of love prompted the second to what she is really reacting to and not him directly. That is what he should actually be more concerned about. There is where it can probably be fixed as well. When the balance becomes equal on the present person and relationship, I bet she will react different the next time. Might strenthen the longevity too.

Was either reaction incorrect, no. They could only react to what they each were prompted to at that moment. When we add the value of purpose or meaning to something, that is when the "trouble" usually starts.That presumed placement of purose or intent can only be done once something has been completed. I should add that I dont see any of us "living" in the present, all things we do are reactions to things we did, even if its only fractions of a second ago. I see no definitive value of purpose something can take, hence nothing is incorrect or nothing is correct. But, once that selection is made that becomes a bound determinant in and of itself until future causes change it, including its value.

"Was either reaction incorrect, no. They could only react to what they each were prompted to at that moment. When we add the value of purpose or meaning to something, that is when the "trouble" usually starts.That presumed placement of purose or intent can only be done once something has been completed. I should add that I dont see any of us "living" in the present, all things we do are reactions to things we did, even if its only fractions of a second ago. I see no definitive value of purpose something can take, hence nothing is incorrect or nothing is correct. But, once that selection is made that becomes a bound determinant in and of itself until future causes change it, including its value."

This means that you choose to nto let anything be worth your own life.

once that selection is made...

Right there. You have chosen your own life to be worth mroe than anything else, and you will not change it. Your unwillingness to change is the patheticness I was talking about. Not that you are unwilling to change, but the reason behind it, that I find pathetic. At least the reasons that I see, and they may be wrong.

As far as I can tell, you are scared of dying and therefor allow that fear to control your emotions. When something like fear controls your emotions, the emotions you take are less "true". So you find yourself worth more, not because you are honestly just that badass, but because you are afraid of dying, and have chosen a perception that makes you believe you are so badassm rather than actually beleiveing that.

You said you enjoy thinking that way, and the reason why you enjoy thinking that way is because you do not like to face your fears. Facing your fears would enevitably change your perception, and you are pathetic because you are too scared to try otherwise.

The reason why you think that love, and other things, are not worth dying for, is because you fear.

That is why you are pathetic.

Please point out any fallicies in my logic, I will not yell at you and call you an idiot if you do, as long as you do it in an open-minded fashion.

My Mother and Brother are worth dying for.

But I would only die for them if it was certain that something would be gained in place of my life.

For example, if someone made me decide who to live out of myself or my Brother, I'd choose my Brother but only if it was certain that he would remain unharmed and alive.

But then again, how could I be certain that something is gained if I am dead?