Science versus Instinct - Page 2

Jacker what are your assumptions based on? Where is this information coming from that allows you to claim that humans have lost their natural instincts over time?

the assumption is a logical step. if you accept that we are decended from apes. and that apes have instincts that allow them to pre-empt natural disasters, and humans do not. then logically it would seem that either we have lost those instincts, or they evolved in apes after our species emerged. the former would seem more likely, as it would be more statistically likely that one species lost some instincts (especially since we now live in a technological society and disregard human feelings at times), than it didnt develop in one species when we were all living in the same way to start with.

if you can think, of another theory as to what happen please state it, but stop questioning ours without any backup.

It is a perfectly valid question to ask, where is your 'information' that allows you to seem that humans have lost instincts? How can you claim this without any data or studies? Perhaps your right, perhaps I'm right, yet this can only be resolved if any additional material is posted. I've already told that these 'instincts' still exist, ie- fight and flight hormones react when the body initiates a stressful condition. I've also highlighted some of the significant instincts that humans currently have.

Summit what's so difficult to understand here. What cynic and I are discussing is not that humans don't have instincts but that humans have lost some in the evolution process.

Exactly my point. Where is your 'information' that allows you to seem that humans have lost instincts in the evolutionary process?

Why do you always need other people's information summit. Can you not use your brain and think. So I want you to think logically here. If evolution is correct then we descended from apes. Ok are you following me. Now combine that step with this one. They currently have instincts that help them be more aware of the environment such as weather and natural disasters. So now somewhere along the time frame of apes to humans we must have lost them. I don't think I can make it any more simple than that.

I'm challenging you because you simply fail to provide any comprehensive reasoning on why you think we have lost our instincts. We haven't lost our instincts buddy. So where is your 'information' that allows you to seem that humans have lost instincts in the evolutionary process? I don't want an opinion, we've obviously got that already, perhaps some scientific study may help construct your arguement a little bit more robust (that is of course 'if' there is any study). Thats all.

i think some of the confusion here has developed because of some animals keen sense in detecting weather change. humans posess the same ability, altho it seems more difficult because we do not pay much attention to the weather... most likely due to the fact that we live in an environment that we create and control eg - a house.

aside from this, apes are an entirely different species from humans, we did not evolve from the apes that exsist today, instead it was a prehistoric apelike creature. apes and humans of today have many differences. i (as well as most others) am unfamiliar with the characteristics of the creature that we both evolved from however, which makes this debate difficult to resolve. even so, apes and humans are entirely different, and as such have entirely different characteristics. when humans and apes became themselves, many things about them changed from whatever it was that they evolved. i dont see either of them "losing" any characteristics over time...although i am not certain.

neither jacker or i were ever denying that humans do have instincts. like wyote said, we were musing as to how some animals have instincts that we do not appear to possess.

there is no definite information, it is purely a theory based on the limited scientific knowledge we as individuals posses. which i laid out in my last post. wyote refuted our theory, suggesting that either we never had the instincts in the first place, or that the fact that we live in houses means we do not detect what occurs outside them.
i find those boths plausible.

but were is your reasoning summit, that we have not lost any instincts. you have listed instincts that we are happy to accpet that we have, but what about other instincts that some animals around us have, why do you think we dont have those?

You have to understand that the instinctive traits of other animals are unique to their specific evolved state, and their environmental context. Every species evolves to adapt to their environment in unique ways. That is important to note, because it explains why every species has different and similar instincts. Homeo Sapiens have neither received nor lost the instincts from other animals. We have evolved to suit our specific environment over time (which of course has fluctuated ever since we diverged from our primitive ancestors). Our instincts that we have, are there for a reason. Instincts of other animals are also there for a reason- to increase the chance of survival and succesfully reproduce over time. The species- Homeo Sapiens (modern day humans) have evolved (amongst other processes) through a process known as adaptive radiation. It is not such a matter of 'instinct' that you should refer to, but rather the intellectual capacity of the human brain to help advance in our natural environment (hence the evolutionary ability to create and utilize technology as an example).

thankyou, thats all we wanted. you may well be right, instead of evolving the instincts that other crearues did, we had the ability to utilise the things around (creating technology) to help do those things instead. but what did we do, before we had that technology. did cavemen have any instincts that helped them predict the weather etc?

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but what did we do, before we had that technology. did cavemen have any instincts that helped them predict the weather etc?

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This depends on what timescale you refer to. Before homo sapiens had the brain capacity and ability to create and utilize 'technology' we were more of a primitive species. We had more primitive instincts. Its also a matter of intelligence that can often symbiotically assist in becoming a more advanced organism. Its interesting that the only other existing species which has the capacity to use tools is the chimpanzee.

'Cave people' actually were able to use tools. As far as I know they didn't have any more advantage over later forms of the 'human' in being able to predict the weather. I'll just note, that no organism (other than humans) is capable of predicting the weather. However some organisms can determine when a change in the weather is occuring. So its not a matter of predicting but rather determining. Even humans can't fully predict long term weather forecasts. Weather is a very chaotic natural pattern.

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Even humans can't fully predict long term weather forecasts

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all of you, stop using the word predict it just makes you look stupid. i thought i cleared this up already

animals use sensory organs to detect change in weather, humans can do the same but we also use intellect to guess whats going to happen.

Wyote: if you read my post correctly, I noted that no organism can predict the weather. However some can detect or determine changes in the weather.

think we might have skipped that bit purely for the fun of continuing to argue black is white against each other.

and what word would you prefer us to use? predict fits the meaning, not psychicaly, but humans predict the weather by looking at what the current weather conditions are and using their knowledge to try and work out what is likely to happen. i will admit that predict was wrong for animals or cavemen.

i know cavemen could use tools, but they didnt have any of the things like barometers etc which recorded weather conditions. it would be interesting to test humans ability to detect weather change if they were living rough for a while, though any test would be a bit innaccurate due to our knowledge of the weather, and what it looks like, we would use that more than any bilogical sixth sense.