Why Do They Hate Us - Page 3

The plan had been layed out for years, PENAC documents being one example, composed of many policy makers and cabinet members or affiliates, PENAC (or Project for a New American Century) is a Neo Con think tank.

Full spectrum dominance is what they their plan, domination of everything, the earth, land, sea, air, and even space.

It said that to invade Iraq we would need a highly catastrophic event, "like a new Pearl Harbor", then came 9/11 and bam, we are invading Iraq with claims of no end to war or invasions abroad.

St Jimmy - Have you watched Bush's Brain? that pretty much ties it together. There may not be ONE single reason we went to war, it might be a bunch of small reasons, and only Bush knows for sure. But is screwed up and it keeps getting worse. I've been told that Iraq once was a great nation. It is awful

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People WERE being tortured in Iraq, maybe you missed it, we torture people, in Iraq and elsewhere, even transporting people to countries who openly allow it for just that purpose,
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The people being tortured in Iraq were the people under Saddams' regime. He even went as far as ordering killings of his own reletives. Did you miss that?

I'm assuming that when you refer to torturing people in other countries that allow it, you are referring to "Club Gitmo". If you will recently recall, there have been reports released that no torture had been going on there. Oh, wait, unless you are referring to them making one of the prisoners wear a bra. That was so mean!! But I bet if you give that prisoner the option of wearing a bra or chopping his head off, I bet I know what he will choose.

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Iraq did not attack us.

They are not better now. Now they are hungry and poor, many injured and dead AND they want us out of there.
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No, Iraq did not attack us. We are not fighting "Iraq", we are fighting "IN Iraq".

We are over there fighting the terrorists, not the Iraqi people. We are over there fixing what was destroyed while helping them fight for freedom and saving yours from terrorists coming to your homeland.
How many of them have told you they want us out of there?? I have seen interviews from several service men telling about being thanked for being over there and protecting their families. Have you heard the story recently reported about the Iraqi man who helped the special services get information. The soldiers got very close to him and his family. The soldiers promised him that if anything happened to him, they would take care of his family. All he asked for was that his family have freedom from the life they had known. The man was killed helping our soldiers. The soldiers, after several months, were able to get a church to sponser the family and bring them to America.

Why don't you spend more of your time supporting your nation instead of being critical of it??

Thought you might enjoy this pic:

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We are over there fighting the terrorists, not the Iraqi people. We are over there fixing what was destroyed while helping them fight for freedom and saving yours from terrorists coming to your homeland.

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Who the hell do you think we were fighting when we invaded?

You are mistaken on at least two counts. One, we fought Iraq's government and army, that is fighting Iraq, Two, a large portion of the "insurgency/resistance/terrorists/etc...

are indeed Iraqi citizens that abhore the idea of an America or UK invasion, not just those with religious agendas, those who know of the history of America and the UK in Iraq, it is always about compliant governments to these powers who rape the country of its profit and resources, then punish the people with bombing raids and sanctions to "fight" a dictator they helped put in power and allied with during his horrible atrocities.

The point is we are also fighting Iraq. Whether the American public is made aware of it, conditioned not to understand it, or not.

Your pic is very nice, I'll pin it right next to my Jessica Lynch poster.

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Why don't you spend more of your time supporting your nation instead of being critical of it??

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Here is your logic, because of any good it ok to dismiss the bad.

That is not how it works.

The more important point is that we know we are being lied to and given the severity of the situation, unending war and invasions, we have all the right in the world to be critical and demand answers, and actual access to evidence, to both obvious questions and those being expressed by internal sources.

You need to understand that the majority of the human race are not "pro-war". Yes, we were fighting Iraq's government and army, the government and army that supported Saddam Hussein, not the civilians. The civilians that chose to side with the government and army became the "enemy". I believe that would be reality in any war.

You are definately not approaching this with a realistic view. As long as there is evil in the world and there are leaders terrorizing others, there will be war.

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You are definately not approaching this with a realistic view. As long as there is evil in the world and there are leaders terrorizing others, there will be war.

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I most certainly am, I don't know that there will always be war, nor would I assume it's possible to rid the world of it.

What I'm talking about is that either you haven't seen or are dismissing tons of historical and current evidence to support an entire other side to this story.

And by stating that our purpose is soley to rid the world of evil is you not being realistic, that by definition is called idealistic.

And I do understand also that there are basically multiple interpretations and accountings of many things current and old, and thats why I like even less not truly being able to know.

I certainly can't make any claims to realities of the world given my information sources. Can you?

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The people being tortured in Iraq were the people under Saddams' regime.

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There are people in Guantanimo bay who were american citizens who are being held without a single reason, and can't get a lawyer to see them. And while we can't prove it, we are probably torturing people in guantanimo bay as well.

As for saddam, yes it is terrible what he did to the Iraqi people, but as yourself this: if we really cared about human rights, would we have gone after Iraq first?
There are certainly other countries with human rights records that are at least as bad as Iraq's. Look at china for example, or tajikistan. their human rights records aren't exactally spotless. look at what the USA is doing to every one of it's citizens with the PATRIOT act.

We invaded iraq because they had a very weak army, they had oil, and GW was trying to distract the american people from the fact that he was doing a shittastic job managing his own country.

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And I do understand also that there are basically multiple interpretations and accountings of many things current and old, and thats why I like even less not truly being able to know.
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I have an idea so you can truly be able to know what's going on over there. Go enlist and quit speculating.

I'm a vet, enlist yourself, I know that does nothing to answer anything.

You tend to get two sides from them as well, but that they know nothing of the policy and truth, as soldiers have no need to know anything, and most don't know of the history, so that means nothing, other than you have no idea what I'm talking about.

And any speculation is being made on presented evidence, testimony, and accusations, not like your lack of even bothering to speculate and just swallowing what the right wing media and government tells you.

Western superpowers have been invading and trying to own and or reshape Iraq for over a hundred years.

Saddam is no more a monster today than when we appearantly helped him to power and to give lists of political enemies and supply him with chemical weapons.

We have slaughtered and tortured more Iraqis then he could ever dream of. But that's just left wing propaganda right?

And for those who think we needed to be in Iraq to fight terrorism, then I ask you, what is the point with Afghanistan? Why are we setting up bases all over, specifically protecting oil contracters setting up pipelines through the regions once held back because of too much volatility and political and economic impact?

Do not let idealism and propaganda keep you from remembering, at the very least, that if everyone on all sides is issuing propaganda and lies then we have no waying of knowing the truth.

And that since people's lives are on the line, and proof of either inaccuracy or lies about information that resulted in invasions keeps coming, since corruption exists and evidence does present at least the possibility of it, and a plethora of other points past and present, then it is highly irresponsible for any American citizen to sit back and be a cheerleader avoiding criticism and internal investigation.

No, people should not be overgeneralized and entirely condemning America and or the government, nor should they be blind cheerleaders.

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And while we can't prove it, we are probably torturing people in guantanimo bay as well.
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I know the findings of the congressional delegation that recently came out on the treatment of prisoners at Guantanimo Bay probably doesn't mean anything to you either, because everyone was probably on their best behavior that day.

These prisoners are "prisoners"!! They aren't supposed to be treated like royalty. They are givin more then any of our military that are taken hostage. They are given "life" while in prison.

Why is the left more concerned about human rights to prisoners who are considered possible terrorists then to our own military men and women? I just don't get that view.

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We invaded iraq because they had a very weak army, they had oil, and GW was trying to distract the american people from the fact that he was doing a shittastic job managing his own country.
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How sad! You trully believe this??

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These prisoners are "prisoners"!! They aren't supposed to be treated like royalty. They are givin more then any of our military that are taken hostage. They are given "life" while in prison.

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You don't know anything about the prisoners or their lifestyle other than what has obviously been told to you by the people accused of abusing the prisoners. What do you expect them to say?

Hell, you can't even be sure any people held were actual combatants.

The problem with the whole abuse scandal is that people haven't realized that from Abu Ghraib and even UK "resorts", they have produced concrete visual evidence of identical abuses.

Making them neither random nor isolated, but instead more likely systematic, that means planned, implemented and now covered up including the jailing of patsies.

Besides, how people are treated in Guantanamo, which I doubt to be as rosey as presented, at least not for many, how they are treated does nothing to diminish the fact that we still ship "detainees" to other countries that permit torture, to be abused and tortured.

And just for the record, I would love for nothing to be wrong and everything we are doing to be just and honorable, I have simply seen evidence to the contrary and am not willing to make assumptions.

I can also honestly say that from the history of a lot of factors involved, I'm leaning towards guilt over innocence, but I also find myself having to play devil's advocate to that side because so many have not seen the same information and or are simply defiant to even the possibility of any wrong doing.

other side - your only quoting the lies and the rhetoric of the administration, do they pay you to do this?

The picture of the soldier giving the child the high five is very nice. I posted it on my blog months ago.

How would you feel if you were passing out candy to all these children, boom an explosion, and most of them are dead. No it wouldn't be your fault, but it sure would be hard not to blame yourself. But you might ask yourself, what could have I done to prevent this? The answer would keep coming around. If I had not been there these kids would not have been blown up.

The Iraqis realizing this have been asking us to leave for some time, but we won't listen. With the use of the media and the help of some Democrats the administration has convinced people like yourself that we need to be there for security.

There have however been some brave Republicans who stood up and asked for an exit strategy, I imagine these brave Republicans will be reelected.

Concerning the torture. The military fought hard against the new torture policies. When I was in the Navy I had to take a course, attend a lecture and even sign an agreement to ensure I understood that under no circumstances were POWs to be tortured. All senior enlisted had to do this. But with the help of Gonzalez it has been deemed that captured (SUSPECTED) terrorists anywhere, including the U.S. are not to be considered POW, even though we have declared war on terrorism. Thereby, torture had been approved by Gonzalez, forcing the military s hand.

If those we are torturing are in fact terrorists, I wouldn't be to concerned. But most of them are not, they are just men and young men who have been rounded up as suspects for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Veterans for common sense and Newsweek has reported on this. And here is even the worst part. When the torture was found out, they punished the soldiers who were only doing what they were told while the General responsible was given a medal. I would hate so much to be in the military right now, trust me there are a lot of angry young men. Go to Optruth.org or Iraq vets against the war http://www.ivaw.net/ Those of you have never served are convinced that these were soldiers who were just being bad, but those of us who have served know better. You don't piss without permission. While crimes are committed, for this to go on for an extended period of time, in the open, it had to be approved, and even encouraged.

Here is the deal, you can have 10 thousand troops in Iraq or 1 million troops in Iraq and you won't stop or slow down ONE suicide bomber. Because they are doing it only because we are there. So then what we are really doing is encouraging terrorism rather than fighting it.

I will repeat the words that have been said ten years ago, "you cannot fight terrorism with military action." We are fooling ourselves and being made a fool of. But it's not funny, because people are dieing.

Reagan who seems to be every conservatives hero did not fight communism with military action and yet won the cold war. Personally I thought it was a bit of luck and I give the credit to Gorbachof. But never the less. The one soul country who was more of a threat then any nation on earth at any time was beaten by us, not by war.

The terrorists we are supposedly fighting in Iraq are insurgents who simply want us to leave, they had nothing to do with 9/11. And if you're going to continue repeating those lies - then show me the proof.