Gay Bishop = Gay Jesus? - Page 2

YOU ARE NOT C0NTENT.....???

IS THIS ABOUT YOU???

YOU continiously show me hypocrisy...
100,000 dead......which is as I said b4......AN UNACCOUNTED FOR NUMBER....BECAUSE CIVILIANS CANNOT BE SEEN APART FROM INSURGENTS....Get your facts b4 you scream injustice...all the while accepting the ppl over there had BETTER DANG WELL BE CONTENT TO LIVE UNDER SADDAM...

How about THOSE millions??
DO they mean less to you??????

Apparently so.

"YOU ARE NOT C0NTENT.....???

IS THIS ABOUT YOU??? "

You asked if I was content psycho.

"YOU continiously show me hypocrisy...
100,000 dead"

How is that hypocricy?

"which is as I said b4......AN UNACCOUNTED FOR NUMBER...."

I didn't realize the mighty YOU had ruled on this, but how do you know their accountability.... including.....

"How about THOSE millions??"

We leave mass graves at every invasion. We bulldoze bodies into pits. What millions are you referring to, and how accurate is their accounting, since we are questioning accountability.

"Get your facts b4 you scream injustice..."

Where, from you?

"DO they mean less to you??????"

Nope, but obviously the others do to you.

INSURGENTS KILL...YOU BLAME OUR TROOPS.

"INSURGENTS KILL...YOU BLAME OUR TROOPS."

People with bombs and guns kill, you one sided bat, I don't like either doing it, its you that has chosen sides and cheer for the death oh "evil" people while excusing "collatoral damage" because you have the audacity to think you know information that is highly classified, dolt.

There weren't insurgents killing like this before we got there, our troops themselves are not to blame, quit twisting words and ideas with venomous blind rediculousness.

And thanks for answering none and all of my questions at once.

22:11 He that hurteth, let him hurt still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is just, let him be justified still: and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still.

Note Let him hurt still. . .It is not an exhortation, or license to go on in sin; but an intimation, that how far soever the wicked may proceed, their progress shall quickly end, and then they must expect to meet with proportionable punishments.

22:12 Behold, I come quickly: and my reward is with me, to render to every, man according to his works.

22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

22:14 Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life and may enter in by the gates into the city.

22:15 Without are dogs and sorcerers and unchaste and murderers and servers of idols and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.

22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star.

22:17 And the spirit and the bride say: Come. And he that heareth, let him say: Come. And he that thirsteth, let him come. And he that will, let him take the water of life, freely.

22:18 For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.

22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

22:20 He that giveth testimony of these things, saith: Surely, I come quickly: Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

The old fall-back-on-scripture ploy. I would certainly be interested in hearing you answer Lefty's questions Trish. And how did we get from a Gay Bishop to the Iraqi Invasion?

There is conjecture that the miracle of turning water into wine took place at His wedding. Also, Jesus was a Hebrew, and according to Hebrew laws, only married men could teach, and be termed a teacher. Also, under Hebrew law, only family members could anoint a man, so how could Mary Magdalene have anointed the Christ on his cross?

As has been noted elsewhere, the Bible has been subjected to many translations, hand copying for many years, and also subjected to extensive editing by patriarchal Church leaders, interested more in the political power of their Church and their gender. Unless memory fails me, there are decades of His life missing from the Bible, please feel free to correct me, as I am sure you would anyways.

Okay, I'm new here, and most likely wouldn't be here if I had not of been asked. Given what I have read so far clashes pretty strongly with some of my beliefs, but I won't discredit anyone for seeing things differently than I do as is their constitutional right, a right I might add I wore a uniform for 22 years to protect. Having said that, I do want to take exception with a few things I have read about the on going war in Iraq. I was here in 1990 and 1991, serving in uniform. I was not at sea, nor was I flying at 30,000 feet above the battle ground, but I was here, on the ground in the midst of it. Then, like now, after being here for two years this time, I can attest to the falsehood of the United States ever, EVER, employing biological, neclear, or chemical weapons, nothing beyond tear gas. It has never been the position of our government, nor our Army, for a 'first strike', and retaliatory strikes using such weapons MUST have presidential authority, something that was NOT granted in 1991 nor this time.
As to the 100.000 lives lost due to our waging this latest war, the figures are entirely blown out of proportion, and no where near accurate.I would further venture to suggest those numbers were fabricated by an arm-chair general who has never worn a uniform, much less heard a shot fired in anger, or more specifically, a beaurocrat looking for his story in a twisted media publication. It never ceases to amaze me at the 'sources close to the pentagon' statements, nor how our media never seems to report on any of the good things happening here, just the body count and just as they have done in wars earlier in our history.
Mass graves? Yes, they are here, 7 known to me personally, and each filled not with casualties of Americans being here, but the mad man dictator who slaughtered them long before we arrived.
I see the faces of these people here daily - while not all of them are ready to embrace change (change that scares the hell out of them because they have never known what freedom really is), the majority are extremely happy we came, and the recent elections are proof of it. I watched the process, and I deal with these folks each and every day here. I watch their children, now decently clothed, attending schools that are either brand new or recently reopened for the first time in years. I see faces, not of fear and oppression, but of hope, and pursuing something new and wonderful - freedom. And not as a puppet government of ours! These people are just now beginning to see some of the very basic changes freedom brings, a freedom we fought for years to attain ourselves, and not without outside help.
I would strongly suggest that those of you reading this who are so hell bent on proclaiming our being in Iraq is wrong, put on a uniform and come spend some time here witnessing first hand what we are REALLY doing - and murdering innocents by the thousands isnt it. The insurgency here is funded and organized by many not even of Iraqi nationality, driven by hardline fanatics who wish only to see a restoration of the 'bad old days' and who do not speak for the majority of this nation. Children now being fed far better than many generations would have even dreamed of, infrastructure here creating jobs that actually pay a decent wage for the first time in over 40 years... and hope.
Now you're free to disagree, but bear in mind where you are when you do it. I am here, on the line, and my collective experience over the almost 4 years altogether I have been here speak far more truth than those who have never set foot on this soil.
Chastise our president if you feel that strongly about his actions, but bear in mind - you have the freedom to do so because of soldiers, soldiers who made the same sacrifices 200 years ago for our nation, foriegn soldiers in many cases. Enjoy your freedom, but try and keep one thing in mind - you dont have it because it was 'free' Life's blood bought it for you, just as its doing here for these people.
And if you still want to doubt the weapons of mass destruction, come on over and I will be happy to show you what has been unearthed before that rubbish was put to press - Soviet Backfire bombers, Mig fighters, and one weapons stock pile after another, slowly, day by day, unearthed from the sands of this place. Then you can took a damn good look up at Syria and ask yourself if the Iraqi gold was all they took.
Disagree with war, its your right, argue the fitness of a man who has the toughest job in the world, then go sit in his office and make the decisions he has to make. Deal with a wounded nation, an attack on our home soil! Rally behind those who claim its all about oil and money... then tuck yourself in your warm bed, knowing you have groceries in your refrigerator, a car to get around in, a job somewhere, and a rather safe lifestyle compared to the lives these people here have faced for the last 40 years. Then, if you're still feeling superior and all knowing, bring yourself over here and spend a little time with me. I have an extra cot for you, and we generally have enough coffee. I cant promise you the warm, clean shower you get every day, ours tends to be cold and a little muddy - but even that is all worth seeing the smile on a face of a child who will grow up free.
Stetson 7, out!

Thanks for the input, but don't for a second think that you are not in the "if you're still feeling superior and all knowing" category.

You can tell us what it is like from where you stand, but unless you hold such a posistion do not even attempt the laughable notion of preaching from a posistion of knowledge and power in regards to the likes of policy makers and agenda setters.

Who "sent" you?

Your reference to info like the 100,000 showed you are disregarding information that you don't know the source of nor consequently the factuality of (not that I'm claiming to), which discredits yourself and your own claims.

No one belittles a soldiers job, and their point of view is as restricted as anyone elses to whats is in front of them and fed from elsewhere. And unless you have overcome military compartmentalization or hold a very high posistion, your authority over information relative to this conversation is limited to what you see physically yourself, and not your interpretation of it either.

My response may be found at http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/frmid=23-u-thrdid=39733

Thanks for the input, but don't for a second think that you are not in the "if you're still feeling superior and all knowing" category.

Well son, I certainly don't think I am superior or all knowing, but I do believe I know a damn sight more about what's really happening over here than you do. How many months have you served over here, anyway? I notice you have made no refernce to serving at all, so I am supposed to simply take what you say at face value when I am here and seeing a far different situation than the one you're perporting? I think not and I classify your response as someone who certainly has no problem running his mouth about something he doesnt really know much about beyond what he reads or hears and then twists to suit his personal agenda. But of course you do have the right to feel as you do, I wont argie with you about your rights. But having rights isnt the same as being right, sportsfan, and in this regard you couldnt be more wrong.

You can tell us what it is like from where you stand, but unless you hold such a posistion do not even attempt the laughable notion of preaching from a posistion of knowledge and power in regards to the likes of policy makers and agenda setters.

Preaching? Once more you seem to have a knack for attacking those who do know more about something than you do. I didnt come in here to start a running debate with someone who obviously doesnt have a clue what the hell he is talking about, but regardless of my position, I am still in a far better one than you to try and ajudge this situation for what it is and not what you seem hell bent on making it.

Who "sent" you?

Did someone have to send me?

Your reference to info like the 100,000 showed you are disregarding information that you don't know the source of nor consequently the factuality of (not that I'm claiming to), which discredits yourself and your own claims.

the 100.000 number is one toted by many and taken as gospel - I never claimed it was accurate, and in fact thought I stated it was anything but. Its irrelevant to me how the number was reached and what bleeding heart liberal wants to settle some score by dreaming it up. The actual numbers of those who died here will never be known, but what I am taking exception to is the allegation that far more have died because of our involvement here which is utter bullshit.

No one belittles a soldiers job, and their point of view is as restricted as anyone elses to whats is in front of them and fed from elsewhere. And unless you have overcome military compartmentalization or hold a very high posistion, your authority over information relative to this conversation is limited to what you see physically yourself, and not your interpretation of it either.

My limitations are not those of the average American, thats for damn sure, because I dont sit each day in front of a television getting spoon fed what some reporter with hopes of pulitzer prize feels is accurate versus what isnt. I am here, in the sand, up close and personal. Where are you? Certainly not here, and not facing what I and many other Americans do. Your attitude reminds me of how the taste of freedom is a flavor the protected will never know. A little advice, junior - until you have walked the battlefields I have and done the things I have had to so you can sleep in relative comfort at night, dont sit there and tell me what the hell I am or am not qualified to know about this situation.
And until I see you here first hand, witness reality, dont waste my time with uneducated drivel wrapped in 50 dollar wording. You insult the spirit of our forefathers and fail to understand that what Thomas Jefferson said almost 200 years is still quite true today - the tree of Liberty must often be watered with the blood of patriots. This nation is on the raod to something far better than it suffered under when Saddam was calling the shots and the lives saved by our intervention will far outweight those lost from doing nothing.

You're free to disagree all you like - but dont ever make the mistake of questioning my knowledge or experience. I was getting shot at by North Koreans when you were still a dream in your father's eyes.

[i][b]

"Well son, I certainly don't think I am superior or all knowing"

Good to hear, cause your not, but no one had accused you like you had, and that was the point.

"but I do believe I know a damn sight more about what's really happening over here than you do."

No one said you didn't, in regards to what you can physically see for yourself. There are mixed views, reporting, "facts" and even intell coming from all sides, some true some not, this is what I know, and be it you or I, neither of us are privy to details such a collatoral damage civilian causualties or what drives that agenda that has us where we are.

"How many months have you served over here, anyway? I notice you have made no refernce to serving at all,"

If I were making claims this might be relevant. I have served you condacending dolt, Navy Intelligence.

"so I am supposed to simply take what you say at face value when I am here and seeing a far different situation than the one you're perporting?"

Your seeing all civilian casualties lying in front of you in contradictory numbers? You are issued all covert and overt classified operational details, tactics and results?

What exactly have I "claimed" that has so disturbed your obviously normally composed demeanor?

"what I am taking exception to is the allegation that far more have died because of our involvement here which is utter bullshit."

If our involvement was only in reference to this war now, then I would better see your point, but how does your notion hold against the death's in regard from all of our involvement from even claims of CIA assistance in Bath Coup. Strategic assisting during Iraq Iran, Gulf 1, Sanctions, Bombings during sanctions, and war now?

We've done an awful lot of killing over there, no argument there at least I would hope, but your standpoint on what numbers stack up to substantiate what claim is made baseless by your own point of you having no idea of death totals like none of us can past reporting. So get off your high horse.

And if you want to bitch about media, please do, I'm sick of not having media worth a shit, but if you want to bash stat claims, at least take the time to know what you are talking about as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/iraq.deaths/

So, though you hold no pertinent data, you feel that because you are in Iraq in the military that you have an unbiased and fair assesment of what is going on there? If you think propaganda is bad in the civilian world, sheesh.

"what he reads or hears and then twists to suit his personal agenda"

If you looked at the article then it is obvious I needn't twist anything, and other than to know the facts I have no agenda you arrogantly slanderous assumptive ass.

"Once more you seem to have a knack for attacking those who do know more about something than you do"

Calling you preachy isn't an attack, its an observation, you are none to subtly claiming superiority on topic and trying to convince others of it, you're preaching.

"I am still in a far better one than you to try and ajudge this situation for what it is and not what you seem hell bent on making it."

You have no knowledge from a policy setting and operational control standpoint. And i'm not trying it anything.

"Who "sent" you?

Did someone have to send me?"

"I'm new here, and most likely wouldn't be here if I had not of been asked"

"I never claimed it was accurate, and in fact thought I stated it was anything but"

You misunderstood me then, didn't say you did, my point was that you were claiming it blown out of proportion with absolutely no knowledge of the information needed to do so, you didn't even know where it came from. Because you were.... "running his mouth about something he doesnt really know much about beyond what he reads or hears and then twists to suit his personal agenda. But of course you do have the right to feel as you do, I wont argie with you about your rights. But having rights isnt the same as being right, sportsfan".

"Its irrelevant to me how the number was reached and what bleeding heart liberal wants to settle some score by dreaming it up."

Yes, you've proven knowing what you are talking about isn't your first concern when making claims. Just what you were trying to bitch at me for.

Arrogant hypocrit.

"My limitations are not those of the average American, thats for damn sure, because I dont sit each day in front of a television getting spoon fed what some reporter with hopes of pulitzer prize feels is accurate versus what isnt. I am here, in the sand, up close and personal....." being spoon fed what some higher up and allowed and censored media venue feels is accurate versus what isnt.

This, I can dispell the innacurracies in the world because I'm where people are talking about way of thinking is absurd. You come on here bitching about people repeating media, our only source of info, like its our fault, then denouncing all media claims, unless they suit your posistion I'm sure, then provide no even attempted "factual" data to the contrary, and people are supposed to take what you say as having more credibility? Why?

"Your attitude reminds me of how the taste of freedom is a flavor the protected will never know. A little advice, junior - until you have walked the battlefields I have and done the things I have had to so you can sleep in relative comfort at night"

Well unfortunately you have a preconditioned response to your interpretation of my attitude. You hear key phrases and words and react accordingly. Not to say that you don't have valuable information and perspective.

As for the battlefields I've walked -grandpa, I've been shot at in American streets, molested by Americans, beaten by Americans, forced to endlessly watch the beating of American loved ones by other supposed American Loved ones, mostly as a child etc ad nauseum. Being in a war does not make you the authority on its legitimacy or accountings, just the legitimacy of your actions given your knowledge, controlled as it is just like everyone elses.

Thats just it. With those key phrases you are distracted from the theme of my posts, that my friend neither you nor I are in a posistion to evaluate all the circumstances and forces at play in this war, you see me spouting one sided propaganda, wouldn't surprise me, thats why I point it out too, because I'm concerned that my source of info, mainstream and indy press can so openly contradict both themselves and eachother leaving us a helpless uninformed mass.

"You insult the spirit of our forefathers and fail to understand that what Thomas Jefferson said almost 200 years is still quite true today - the tree of Liberty must often be watered with the blood of patriots."

I insult the spirit of a need for war, so your saying I'm supposed to want to encourage war? I am supposed to be ok with the notion of inevitable war instead of actively trying to prevent and end it?

People decry slaughter, then are confused when people cry out when more people slaughter to slaughter the slaughterers. Then get confused and angry when people say this all confuses and angers them.

War like man's imperfection does exist, our goal is in life is to pursue the "impossible", peace and perfection, in god's eyes, ours, whatever.

"This nation is on the raod to something far better than it suffered under when Saddam was calling the shots and the lives saved by our intervention will far outweight those lost from doing nothing."

One can only hope your right, but to leave it at, as if that is all that is at hand is niave.

If you want to know what this war is about you must only read PNAC (Project For A New American Century). Coming from a military backround it should make perfect sense to you. To whether you agree with their ideals or not I'm curious too.

But if you don't think that are any other driving factors to war in Iraq than people's freedom, you are sadly mistaken, not to mention clueless.

Resources and Military Poise. Resources including, OIL (which is A factor), commercial import export, including military industrial.

Military Poise being pretty simple, bases throughout middle east region, occupy and dominate.

All empires seek to cleanse the all others of their inherent evils while bringing their self proclaimed illumination. All while neglecting or flat out hiding the fact that they themselves are a festering cesspool of corruption that cost innocent lives in a myriad of ways for just as many reasons.

And for a powerful "free" nation to be corrupt at its core takes an equally powerful corruption, to spread this kind of corruption can be reasonably viewed as potentially far more dangerous than Puppet Regimes.

This becoming more relevant in regards to the history of the situation which is oddly lacking in significant review.

"You're free to disagree all you like - but dont ever make the mistake of questioning my knowledge or experience. I was getting shot at by North Koreans when you were still a dream in your father's eyes."

(Your not even as old as my father according to your posted age, how were you being shot at by N Koreans?)

The first persons in need of being questioned about their knowledge, experience, and beliefs are those who claim no need for it.

Questions aren't enemies of truth, enemies of questions are. Questions are needed to expose weakness and corruption so as to strengthen and correct.

So prepare to be questioned.

No Lefty, you are not the only one to take exception with people taking liberties with their Gods to support wars.

I do not have the numbers in front of me, but I have heard it said that the number one cause of death in the world, through history to today, is God.

quote:

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There has been no official figure for the number of Iraqis killed since the conflict began 18 months ago, but some non-government estimates have ranged from 10,000 to 30,000.

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Lefty, I got that off your CNN reprot..and it backs my earlier statements again, there are NO official counts, because insurgents dress as civilians.

COMPARE that to 12,000 dead in the Kurds city when SADDAM threw down mustard gases...a horrible death.

quote:

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Most people died from violence after the invasion, the survey said, with most of the households interviewed saying air strikes from coalition forces were to blame

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AGAIN this is due, according to CNN to coalition forces. Bush did not command these actions.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
The body count is at most 19, 770.

A far cry from the 100,000 the liberal sites would like you to believe.....can we say 'Lie to proove."

quote:

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I do not have the numbers in front of me, but I have heard it said that the number one cause of death in the world, through history to today, is God.

---

No, in fact the holocaust on babies far exceeds all wars death tolls....including Hitler's death camps...far pale compared to the abortion deaths we demand on a babies life/lives.

AND that death toll is presented to us by NON BELIEVERS...who push the agenda that babies are not living feeling humans. Talk about being fed BS.

"Lefty, I got that off your CNN reprot..and it backs my earlier statements again, there are NO official counts, because insurgents dress as civilians."


The fact that the government won't bother trying because they don't want you to know, which they probably do know, does nothing to vindicate your possistion. And if anything about it should upset you it should be that they don't feel it important enough to tell you.

Different methods were used in attempts at tallies and estimates, not just looking at dead bodies. Not everyone is clueless about who is dead and whether they were civilians or combatants.

Yes, compare even an estimate of 10-30, 000, to 12, 000, seems comparable to exceeding, what were you wanting compared, looks like a bad thing to me. Then ask yourself what governments were good friends and working with Saddam when he gassed those Kurds, where he got the weapons to do it etc.

"AGAIN this is due, according to CNN to coalition forces. Bush did not command these actions"

Is America not part of the coalition?

"A far cry from the 100,000 the liberal sites would like you to believe.....can we say 'Lie to proove.""

No, you can't, because it was a legitimate survey, not a random liberal estimate, that is simply not getting credit whether it deserves it or not, which you and I can't know.

'No, in fact the holocaust on babies far exceeds all wars death tolls....including Hitler's death camps...far pale compared to the abortion deaths we demand on a babies life/lives.'

Once again you are being absurd. Religion is the number one cause of wars and death in the world, throughout history and today, and no religion is innocent in this. For examples, those time honored, and oft overused segments of history, the Burning Times, the Inquisitions, Witchhunts, and the Crusades. The Afghani Taliban leaders certainly were religious men, Fundamentals though they might have been. Ancient peoples all over the world fought and killed over religion, and many deaths across the globe are still religiously motivated at this very moment. Herr Hitler, as you seem to like the man, used a quasi-religious explanation for his atrocities. As he said in his book Mein Kampf, '..general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training must be derived from faith...'. Racial Supremacy groups all utilize scripture and/or religious doctrine to explain away their hatred and violence.

Religion is simply the cause of much of humanity's wars and death. And when those numbers throughout history are added up, they exceed those caused by abortion, even when you factor in a wild estimate of those that occurred before modern medical procedures were developed. Abortion is not as recent as you might think, and has been occurring for eons. Take a peek at any pharmaceutical catalogue from mid-19th century 'Christian' America, but be prepared to be disgusted.
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'AND that death toll is presented to us by NON BELIEVERS...who push the agenda that babies are not living feeling humans. Talk about being fed BS.'

Humans are not 'living feeling humans' until they develop a brain. That is a simple, medical, and logical fact. I also note that you fail to mention that the majority of the Pro-choice are Christian themselves. Why do you term everyone who does not think as you do 'unbelievers', whether they follow your religion or not? I am in fact pro-choice, but I am also pro-adoption as well. Women should have a right to choose what they do with their own bodies, but they should also keep in mind that there are loving couples that cannot have children, who would do anything to have a child of their own.