Does rap music insight violence amongst young peop - Page 2

"What I am wondering is why so many believe that a girl that acts promiscuous in a video is reason for calling her a slut or whore."

Regardless of whether they actually are or not, people are pointing out what they see, I think what you are confusing here is the difference between what the reality of a "slut" or "whore" is as opposed to its negative conotations and stigmas. You see, a slut is a sexually prormiscuous person, as far as I understand, as a whore is a person who sells some form of sexual pleasure for money, those are just the words designated for such specifics, the idea of their being right or wrong, good or bad, or reflected of them negatively as human beings is another matter entirely.

You cannot forget that reality doesn't fit into neat boxes, we are objects, we are slaves, we are also more free than others, be these in context of physical scientific reality or ideological moral philosophy.

Besides you are sidestepping the issue and following along a path that perpetuates these beliefs and ideals that create the negative stigmas and labels you are trying to argue against.

This perpetuation comes by reinforcing ideas that were based on sound rational but have since been twisted by fear, insecurity, and desire for control (fear is always ripe for exploitation). Sex is not bad, and as long as you live in balance and appropriate excess and moderation levels it should not be seen any differently, but other factors have been manipulated and prevail by those with enough power or fanatacism.

Part of the point, for me I don't care if people are seen as whores or sluts because I don't see those as bad things, rationally, though there is emotional reprecussions, which is what I feel may be a distorted and engrained perception reinforced by natural insecurities that have been exploited.

And if someone acts like a slut or a whore, someone might do what humans are so skilled at and point out the obvious, or just innocently describe the world as they see and understand it.

You should be concernced with the negative connotations and not the words.

"Isn't your very point of view indicate them as objects? You don't know these women to say what their reasons are for doing a video."

Their reason, unless they are forced which then excludes them from my point, is irrelevant, because the fact that they want to or are willing to do that is not wrong.

All entities are objects by definition.

If you are implying a context of moral slang, then as long as we are slaves of survival and any existing systems in place to ensure this survival, then yes, we are also objects, our own means to our own ends, collectively or individually.

To think otherwise is naive.


"The slapping labels doesn't only hold true for females. Males are also victims. The other day, I heard a woman call her husband a lazy bastard because she worked while he was the homemaker. Huh? A stay home woman is a homemaker but a man is lazy?"

Also, what you aren't looking at, evidence of our programming and perpetuations, is that the rappers are also stereotypes, they are facades or exaggerations. They are equally "forced" by consumer demand, most artists cry out against "sell-outs" but generally give in to greed and pride over such worries becoming womanizers and materialists often even if just for show. Unless you are super hot or a religious musician it generally doesn't pay to be yourself, or to be chaste and moral. Thats not what fuels "reality" tv, now is it?

"sure..... depends on the subject and mental state of the individual who is listening to the "rap""

This statement is true as much as any related "trigger" related to a mental state is. Meaning, from psychology terms, triggers are anything that encite such reactions, and if a rapper's anger or specific terminology is the trigger, than any equatable anger or terminology is just as much a trigger.

Music, like any artistic medium or life interaction is emotionally and or sensually based, and therefore has effects on emotions through subject matter or direct sensory affects.

What all this means is everything is a trigger, it just depends if you have that particular sensitivity as to whether it will become an issue.

And to tie up and quit gassing, it would seem as though these particular issues, because of their very natural place in our lives, with their natural implications for insecurities have been capitalized or attempted to be controlled in an innapropriate and ultimately more damaging fashion than possibly necessary.

By fearing and condemning natural acts necessary to our survival we have created very confused people, who instead of being taught to be responsible and balanced they are often taught that their naturally occuring feeling and instincts are bad, wrong, or even evil. And as long as we have to have sex to procreate, that's a serious mass psychological problem.

But it could just be that this is just how things are and that's that. Because we always strive for the most and best and condemn anything less untill we have lost the energy to continue such pursuits and settle.

I just read your post, three times, and I still don't understand exactly what your perceptive is, although I think I might be in agreement with most of it.

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The women that hang with these rap stars, or any other, groupies and what not, are the ones treating themselves like objects, haven't you ever seen how they act, passing out and concerts, giving blow jobs to ever swinging dick to get back stage. Please, there is a consistent message, sometimes false, but rappers have always said they are just rapping about what they see. They see women act like whoes, just like guys. You would hope women would notice if they do care, because rappers are helping to point it out. But since it really is just a double standard, the whole argument is baseless.

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Call it like they see it? So because a rapper writes music about a groupie having sex with him and every band member, it's worthy of truth?

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Besides you are sidestepping the issue and following along a path that perpetuates these beliefs and ideals that create the negative stigmas and labels you are trying to argue against.

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I'm the one falling for the negative stigmas? Hmmm, the way I see it, I'm not the one who has no sympathy towards these woman because they are greedy sluts, because the rapper says so.

"I just read your post, three times, and I still don't understand exactly what your perceptive is, although I think I might be in agreement with most of it."

Well if you have a specific question or comment feel free.

"Call it like they see it? So because a rapper writes music about a groupie having sex with him and every band member, it's worthy of truth? "

Worthy of truth? I'm not sure what that means, but if it is true, then yes it's worthy of truth.

"I'm the one falling for the negative stigmas? Hmmm, the way I see it, I'm not the one who has no sympathy towards these woman because they are greedy sluts, because the rapper says so."

If someone is trying to verbally abuse someone by calling them a slut then where you are coming from holds merit, that was not what I was referring to, I was stating that words like slut and whore are adjectives, and if you act a certain way these are the words used to describe the acts, or the person if it is a basic and continual persoanlity trait.

If someone acts like a slut, they shouldn't be surprised or offended if someone points it out, if they are offended then they need to worry about their actions and not the fact that someone pointed them out.

But like I said, if a person is only saying that to attack someone, firstly, it doesn't change the fact that they are still acting that way, and second, this verbal abuse is generally "wrong" and uncalled for.

I don't support verbal abuse, though it is inevitable and natural (we have to vent anger it would seem). But I also don't promote censorship of pointing out the obvious, or of describing that which is before your eyes.

And they aren't just greedy sluts cause the rapper says so, thats defensive tunnel vision, they are greedy sluts because they are willing to do anything to be on tv, fucking and sucking their way around to be with rich and famous people. If you referr only to video actresses, they may only be portraying this, which still warrants people saying that they are indeed acting like a slut or whoe. Whether that is how they normally act or not.

This does not mean that they are not perfectly normal people, they simply engage in a manner of behavior that is described as a slut or whoe, why are you so resistant to this seemingly obvious fact?

I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it. Unless it is behavior that becomes overly addictive and self destructive.

Do you have a problem with a woman being a slut or whore? If not, then why would you get upset if someone called them that? Unless of course they are doing it just to be dicks, which at first may be their own shock coming out verbally. There are a lot of circumstance behind every action and reaction. So I'm getting the impression that I'm just not clear on what you are asking or are confused about.

Grrrr. I had this whole response typed out and my computer froze.

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Do you have a problem with a woman being a slut or whore? If not, then why would you get upset if someone called them that?

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I don't have a problem with whores. If you know of a girl that gets paid for sex, then by all means, call her a whore. I have a problem with people applying names to others based on what they THEY perceive and hearsay from others. By calling girls in videos--greedy whores, is proof to me that music does influence some. It may not influence your action, but it does effect our thinking.

Leftwood, do you even know the details behind the requirements for dancers to be chosen for videos? I think you would be surprised that in most cases the ability to give head doesn't put them ahead of the line.

*edit to include*
(I'm not always great at clearing out my cookies so if my daughter read this, or any other young adult, I apologize for my direct comment on oral sex).

I never called anyone a greedy whore. I wish you weren't so offended so as to see these things.

I said they were after power and money, just like everybody else.

I don't know them personaly, and I don't have to have a 90% or better chance of generally describing their reason for being in a video. They have desires and aspirations, they need money and a job, they are ok (enough) with acting like sluts and whores to achieve their goal. No judgement, just fact.

"Leftwood, do you even know the details behind the requirements for dancers to be chosen for videos? I think you would be surprised that in most cases the ability to give head doesn't put them ahead of the line."

I take it you do? Keep in mind there are different forms of dancing and very different types of videos as well as dancers used. Some professional dancers would probably shudder to be associated with strippers, for whatever reason.

(Being chosen for looks is number one, and so if a desperate number 2 is willing to give something extra.......) (I'm also fairly confident that not all cases include "scandal" )

I don't know what kind of dancers in what kind of videos you have in mind, but I'm mostly referring to "raunchy" strip club laden pool party videos which don't even need dancers of any sort, just naked women, though when presenting strip clubs dancers can be involved.

If you are trying to suggest that in these videos dance skill is the most important part of a job application, I will thank you for the laugh. Just like waitressing skill is the leading factor for Hooters.

You talk about problems with people associating an idea to what they see. I'm afraid in the case of acting, that is a ludicrous argument. You can defend the actors personal lifestyle choices outside of work, but they are still "acting" like whores and sluts. And are TRYING to be percieved as such.

So, if anyone is worried about being percieved as such, maybe they shouldn't act that way. And if someone is percieving someone as such without reason, like seeing them act that way, then they are probably just overgeneralizing and or just wrong.

Does rap violence incite violence amongst young people?

Rap music definitely has an influence on people. People I've known and grownup with have changed after listening to rap music. It's all for image and acceptance. I agree that children see music as a powerful and potential medium for their frustration and enjoyment in life –I see it the very same way but I'm strong willed. I think those impressionable types can be provoked into violence by hip hop. Strong willed and educated types are not so easily persuaded.

Hip Hop is a way of life for some, those in the ghettos of America. They can relate and so may even be more at risk of being mislead by these phoney icons because they think they are the same. Hip Hop is spreading throughout the world. In England i see imitations who try to be 'Hip Hop' talking about guns and hoes. At the same time I ask myself: if there was no rap would they be the same? And I come to the fallible conclusion that yes they would be, but maybe the style would be different.

I think the big players in the hip hop game need to think about the message the music they sell is giving and I'm talking about the executives at the top music companies who dish this out, the guys behind the scenes that we don't see.

"Rap music definitely has an influence on people. People I've known and grownup with have changed after listening to rap music. It's all for image and acceptance."

The image has nothing to do with music, that is a personal expression that generally is social influence, people dress to impress or make statements. The music is also separate from lyrical message, image, or personal opinion, or need or desire of acceptance. The topic therefore can be somewhat overgeneralized and get contradictory.

Sorry, just a point that became more evident with your post, see how we learn from eachother.

I somewhat disagree with Leftwoods comment that image has nothing to do with music. The Music Video plays a pivotal role in the forming and shaping of trends in fashion today and it has an influence on personal opinion too. Of course not everyone is so easily influenced but many people are. Hip Hops influence can be seen in all aspects of life particularly image. Here in London u hear a new word, it comes from a rap tune, u see some American clothing like Avirex and Timbaland and it comes from a rap video. You see the connection?

Rap videos market these brands by making them seem attractive-look how many women and bling we see in the videos, they make it seem as if this is the lifestyle which will lead to such things.

You are confusing clothes and various other things, like opinion with music, they are different things. If a person wearing a cowboy outfit raps, he's still a rapper, while still being a cowboy, this happens today as a matter of fact.

The point being, the culture is dictating style, style and culture influence through social tools, medias, music, tv, (sound, sight, smell, etc.).

The style or culture is not music, but music can express a style or culture, as a tool or extension of the style and culture.

So I'm just saying that we are talking about 2 different things that are entwined.

Rap musicians create a style and then sell it. The rappers themselves are usually part of the culture they are selling to, but the rappers separate themselves from their culture in the process of making music; they sit outside of it thinking of inventive ways to become successful. Rappers are devising new styles whilst looking at their culture's style and deciphering what is missing or what would make it better. Peeps buy it and then sell it to their friends and then everyone's got the style. Culture is not dictating style culture is buying it, the rappers are dictating it. Over the past couple of decades the impact that rap music has made on style and culture cannot be ignored. The basics of a culture cannot be fabricated by music, much of the hip hop culture would be there without the rap but certain aspects of it such as its style and fashion would not be, because there wouldn't be anyone to say what to wear or how to wear it, this is unimaginable. I'm not saying rap music has completely changed our culture maybe 1% of the style is changed every year, but 20 years is 20% so a significant amount has changed since the beginning of rap music.

I don't believe rap musicians created that style, I think poverty stricken projects, war torn societies (including gang, drug, and police wars), and prison systems within westernized societies are the roots of most gangster rap associated styles. Mixed with some various cultural traditionalism. That and eventually major marketing savy music labels and sponsors.

Basically everything affects everything and blah blah blah.

So what this comes down to is that everybody is both right and wrong.

Violent music promotes violence just as much perhaps as it promotes anti-violence through awareness and natural reaction.

If the lyrics are telling people to be unjustifiably offensively violent than I would say then and only then can it be accused of inciting violence, otherwise its just emotionally powerful information or other sensory input that like anything else is dangerous when abused or used with malicious intent.

Anyone who defends rap music is talking out of their ass. I recently heard 3 6 mafia songs called, slob on my knob, and another called let's plan a robbery. There was a third with lyrics saying "break the law" but I don't remember what the title was. These songs promote violence, degredation of women, and crime. Kids are listening to this thinking that it is ok to do these things. Rap music is evil. There was another song I heard with lyrics that said "fuck bitches, make money" over and over again. Kids, and especially black youth, are growing up thinking that their future is gonna be about having sex and making lots of money. I would bet that a large percentage of them don't even know what they're hearing. 99.9% of rap songs talk about these same immoral topics. There is no argument for a positive influence from rap. Bottom line, rap is evil and it is the downfall of American youth.

Well.. I gotta tell ya.

Everytime I hear a rap song I just wanna go hang me some niggers.

I mean, it just makes me hate black people so much...

Dirty niggers.

rap music is just another in the long line of scapegoats we choose to explain why we live in a violent culture. its rap, or its marilyn manson, or its quentin tarantino and oliver stone. kids today are as stressed out as they have ever been, and rather than trying to find the real reason why, we come up with easy answers and quick fixes. we are afraid to look too hard at our society because we might realize that a lot of different factors contribute to violence. its much easier to point the finger. rap music creates violence! ban rap music! theres violence in the news! ban the news! theres violence in books! don't let our kids read books! if you are going to say that rap incites violence, where would you stop?

rap doesn't create violence. rap music exists because kids are stressed out and angry, and record companies cater to them by making angry records that match their feelings. rappers are simply creating the supply to meet the demand. the same way that linkin park and groups like that cater to kids who feel lonely and insecure.

Not all people who listen to rap music become gangsters but, I'm sure some do. Obviously not correct to assume either end of the spectrum.