Loving, Kind, Forgiving, Blessing God? - Page 2

Justice Antonin Scalia recently gave a speech at Yeshiva- Cordoza Law School in New York, saying that he does not see how government, in any way, can be neutral about God. However, as we see, there are too many double standards regarding God and man for government, or for laymen, to be partial to God in their deliberations. So, if one were to murder my wife and children, then I am not obligated to forgive that person. However, it is my duty to follow the law in seeking the appropriate form of justice. What duty? I am governed by federal and state legislations prohibiting vigilante justice. It is, therefore, my legal duty to seek aid from law enforcement, private investigators, and the district attorney, or whatever other legal means are appropriate.

If, however, you incorporate God in government, and you get rid of all double standards, then one would say that I should be able to seek vigilante justice since God destroys all those who destroy the innocent. Since the Ten Commandments is an endeavor in double standards, it necessarily cannot apply in certain areas such as in, Thou Shalt Not Kill.

The Torah actually says, Thou shalt not commit murder. But, if we seek vigilante justice and commit an act of vengeance killing, then how is that not murder?

Furthermore, if God has killed out of vengeance, has he not committed murder?

One might say that there is a double standard because God is perfect and man is not. If that is true, then God should be held to a higher standard of moral perfection, not a lower standard.

Espescially when moral slogans like practice what you preach, reap what you sow, 2 wrongs don't make a right, lead by example, are so rampant.

i guess its satan job to tempt not to destroy. He tempt us to do most of the things that happen around us. we have a choice whether to give in or to refuse his tempting but we are humans, so eventually satan's tempting overcome us. Actually he helps us to case caios then he disappears.

Sounds more like a traveling reality show to me. Next Time on, "THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!"

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If God exists and God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect, then does God destroy or does Satan destroy?

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Men destroy, being are who they are. They may be tempted by God, but their choices are still held accountable for.

Natural disasters and diseases have been brought forth by Satan, thru ppls choice to have the 'knowledge' of both good and bad.
Consider where Job was tested by Satan several times.

Satan killed his family, destroyed his home and land. Etc...and this was allowed by God. Who did Job remain true too?
GOD!

What reward Job has now? Life is over for him, but he persevered. ...and now has the fruits of Heaven bestowed on him. VS suffering thru eternity.

It is written in the prayer to Our Father, to ask to NOT be put to the test...

Therefore, God can either use natural disaters to destroy (AS he did with earthquakes, example the Walls Of Jericho) or he can allow Satan to use them.
Consider Job's family destroyed and killed in a natural way.

Therefore, since we do NOT know which, it is prudent still to let go of the prejudices you hold against the Bible, and instead prudently read that which you scoff.

It could SAVE your life (eternity)

God uses nature to chastise people, Satan uses it to turn people away from God.

"God uses nature to chastise people"

Hmmm, killing equals chastise? So, if a child or loved one of yours is killed in a tornado, will her now naked body parts littering your neighbor's yards, its because she did something to warrant it right?

And Pat, I'll ask this first, like on the site link about Jericho, what was the particular reason for the uprising on the city? I remember it mentioned that God wouldn't destroy it after the effective uprising. So what was the rest of the story behind it.

The reason I ask is because this is another specific referrence to a biblical hero scenario, where tons of people die horrible and gruesome deaths at the hands of out "heroes".

The site specifically mentioned how they killed every person in the city, save one chick and her family, meaning men women and children were slaughtered. But its all ok because he was the hero.

So I would like to know the claimed reason of legitamacy of such an act.

Let's look at how ppl are towards God, and man can the examples be abundant.

Go look at your newscast...how many murders would you see? How many ppl are killing their children?

How many are radically against God??

How many deny His being?

How many are sefl centered, pompous, self fulling buttnoses??

Knowing how society is, (A pack of derelicts) who rape, kill, pillage, theive, lie, and blaspheme God...then YOU tell me...how God can put up with us!!!!

Yep, He has all rights to destroy. And you can require all the answers you want, but if I were to understand His reasoning, and that would be impossible because He is perfection, and mind boogling powerful, but IF I could understand it....HIS REASONS ARE SIMPLE...PPL ARE HATEFUL!!!

Now ya get the picture. AND He has all rights to take the life He gives. Ya dont like it hon...just wait in line for the Hell opening. I hear lots of folks dont mind the wait.

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One might say that there is a double standard because God is perfect and man is not. If that is true, then God should be held to a higher standard of moral perfection, not a lower standard.

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Let me get this straight....

God gives us everything, and we still defy Him.

God dies for US, and we still ignore Him.

God is patient with us, but we demand more mercy.

God is forgiving, but we do what we want knowing He will forgive.

C'mon, God has given you more than you could ever even contemplate giving back. Life is a miracle itself...
Salvation a gift.....

But yet, you stand here with such audacity like a child throwing a tantrum demanding He give more of Himself.

We took His life...what more do you expect?

Would you give your life for HIM?

Chances are you feel He is obligated to you. In fact, He gave you everything necessary to fulfil life...and what, if I may be so bvold to ask, have you returned to Him.

There is no possiblity on earth for you to even return a granual of what He gave you. Be thankful, love Him, Trust Him, and love others.

Thats the minor requirement. Not a BIG imposition BTW. Considering the talents he gave you, a mind that is useful, motor skills to type, eyesight to see, and all the possessions on earth to use to maintain your needs.

Water is a huge necessity. It comes to you everyday. Food is on your table, and electricity to get online.

This is all taken for granted...and you m'dear have nothing but LOVE (Well, you should anyway) to return to Him, and thats what He wants.

HOW hard is that?

We were also given the need to fear our fellow man, apparently because of this grandiose idea of free will that has worked out so well.

He created man as man is by your claims, but yet the actions of the creations suddenly are completely divorced of his doing, his fault.

You rightly mention the ways of man, and with this mentioning of lies and murder, how are we supposed to know believe or understand other things, all our information really comes from other people. Even stories of god come from these other people that we cannot trust.

I just watched your other link, the evolution thing, and found it very informative, and would like to thank you, however there is no room for any conclusions to be made from it.

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We were also given the need to fear our fellow man, apparently because of this grandiose idea of free will that has worked out so well.

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You are confused..we are given fear of God....that would induce man to trust and love Him or lose Him.
To fear His just punishments due us when we hate our fellow men.
AND free will is our guide and proof that we love Him in return.
Does He ask much? Does He require much...? When all He requires for faith is the size of a mustard seed.
Ya know, the smallest seed that grows into a huge plant...?

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He created man as man is by your claims, but yet the actions of the creations suddenly are completely divorced of his doing, his fault

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Try as you might, you will NOT convince me that I do not have power over my own actions. It would my own doing if I choose to deliberately disobey God.
He gave us His Word, the truth of the Bible. He gave us miracles, He gave His life...and again, we do nothing but whine about what we do have.

When is the last time you gave Him thanks? For anything?

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You rightly mention the ways of man, and with this mentioning of lies and murder, how are we supposed to know believe or understand other things, all our information really comes from other people. Even stories of god come from these other people that we cannot trust.

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ALL information comes thru the Bible.
And altho variations have slid into the world, then look at historical events that led us to Churches....
Stop looking at men, and look inside yourself. Reflect instead on your quest to become enlightened. I gave so many things in here.
(The religious forums)
Faith is something I cannot give you. But Prayer and trust in God can.

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I just watched your other link, the evolution thing, and found it very informative, and would like to thank you, however there is room for any conclusions to be made from it.

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You are welcome, BUT even if you cling to false hope in evolution, then tell me how prudent that would be.
Even the greatest scientists have discerned thru much trial and error that it is impossible to give credit to these theories.
They can take a process of making a diamond, and create a CZ, but the process is much faster than how a diamond is created in nature.
It is close, but no cigar.

**SO we know they are capable of 'making things occur at a rapid pace vs a natural pace.

AND with all they have done with the years they have had to proove the theory, it is positively a false belief to keep pursuing it.
BUT, we both know, they wont stop.

And I for a fact know, they will never succeed.

In fact, as I mentioned b4....if it were true that evolution exists from nothing...then we would have a new 'creature' tomorrow or even yesterday, who was due to be formed from millions of years back...but we dont.
And suffice to say, even single celled creatures have a beginning somewhere.

None the less....what more proof you need is yours to find, if you only ask God.

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Furthermore, if God has killed out of vengeance, has he not committed murder?

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God is the Creator of Life, and He takes life. IT is His to take. We belong to Him. He will dismiss our presense however; if we refuse to acknowldge Him, or if we choose to live life reveling in sin...and justifications for those sins without making amends for them.

To call God a murderer is really showing you do not understand God's essense.

As for the Torah, in respect to that faith...let me fill you in on Muslim religion.

In the times of Abraham... His wife Sarah required her maid to sleep with Abraham. Agar the maid did so.

Agar had a son, Sarah then had a son too afterwards. Then Agar was sent away to the desert.
She spoke to an angel b4 she fled. The angel told her that her son's children would multiply.
And God promised Abraham that Agar's son would multiply (His son too BTW)
And that Sarah's son would also multiply, but would be His choosen.
(AS she was the rightful wife of His servant Abraham.)

Ok, thus the Muslims were born in their land, and Judaism was to begin thru Abraham.

OK...as we know, both mirror one another....
as we know, both have essentially the same laws, and what not...
and as we know (OR I posted elsewhere) that Christ was the fulfilment to the Old Testaments.

Therefore, the prophets they both have had, have already led to Christ.

Now, altho the Jews refuse any belief that Christ was anything close to being their Messiah... at least the Islams did write on Jesus.
Altho, somewhat second hand info. They gave Christ a prophets position and the jews did too, but Jews did not make an account to His life.

Anyway...simply put, the laws of old had passed away, and Christ brot new laws.

Distint, yet closely tied.