Ignorant Voting the Death of Democracy - Page 4

A thought that often buzzez between my ears is that I can remember both before and after, well, probably every election I've seen or heard of just about ever, hearing of BOTH major political parties and others as well as accusing the other with fraud, conspiracy, the works.

Both sides, every time, if boths sides are saying there is corruption and tampering by both parties...

What are the chances of some serious corruption within these systems and governing factions?

I ask this because I have conversations with people about various types and degrees of scandal, corruption, and conspiracy, which people tend to agree happens, but when we get specific, say '00 '04 elections and all the recorded and contested "irregularities", suddenly no conspiracy, scandal, etc. is possible or it is but only in agreement with their personal party lines.

And its quite obnoxious.

A great daily show clip.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2005/070505perspective.htm

CNN demos hacking e-votes to tilt elections

Computer tabulators with no paper trail is the most rediculous addition to the death of our democracy since the acceptance of lying politicians.

This is fucking pitiful.

Rigged USA Elections Exposed

You Tube | October 23 2006

Computer Programmer testifies that Tom Feeney (Speaker of the Houe of Florida at the time, currently US Representative representing MY district ) tried to pay him to rig election vote counts.

Excerpt: Hacking Democracy (HBO Special) Electronic voting machines count about 87% of the votes cast in America today. But are they reliable? Are ... all » they safe from tampering? From a current congressional hearing to persistent media reports that suggest misuse of data and even outright fraud, concerns over the integrity of electronic voting are growing by the day. And if the voting process is not secure, neither is America's democracy. The timely, cautionary documentary HACKING DEMOCRACY exposes gaping holes in the security of America's electronic voting system.

Ignorant Voting the death of democracy? Well the Bush era of election has certainly fulfilled that aspect. One can only wonder if democracy ever existed in reality?

You know I wonder which is worse that America reelected GW (lam'in) Bush or the reported change of balance of power? I know that this is more of a personal peeve of my own but . . . to give perspective: I want to be involved in the electorial process so I became active in the process by supporting a local candidate for congress. Personal observation fo the candidate & general reputation were primary in my actions supporting him . . . (he lose the race, manager sited larger finanial support of apponent as major factor . . but that is another thread)
My point beeing a marked contrast that seems to exist?
Example: Election day, I stand among the signs of candidates near a local voting site. I am there to support some one who I think will produce better (hones?) government not because I was assigned the post. I alone stand with a sign & starts to (rain) sprinkle . . . I feel pretty foolish standing in the rain so I start asking myself is it worth it?

Re-elected? Bush was never elected, not once, the rigging of these elections happens to be well documented. Greg Palast and the BBC were all over it, plus we have testimony from programmers for these voting machines which are the sickest joke being played on our dying democracy.

Which is very much to the point, IronWood! So many seem to accept the idea that we went there to preserve democracy yet the very situation evloved from subterfuage designed to mitiagate the principle of democracy? The principle of division of power in government, let alone the rights of the individual (constitutional rights) which are being abused.
Perhaps we need to look the gift horse in the mouth, lest we know the value of our gift?
So I stand in the rain & think why am I still here? A commitment? After all I had stated to the candidate that I would get out in the public (grass roots) with the sign? But hey , It is rainnig (lite sprinkle)!
Wondering even if he wre elected would he, could he make much of a difference?
Superman . . . Truth, Justice & the American Way?

There is a fascinating story developing in the run for '08's GOP candidate.

Congressman Ron Paul is taking the debates by storm acting as the only Republican with what could be termed a pre-9/11 mentality. He is the only republican acting like republicans before the neo con take over.

He is winning polls left and right yet being intentionally ignored in mainstream black outs, left out of polls untill supporters flamed polling sites to add him, and generally lambasted by far right wing elements of his party.

He is the only anti Iraq war republican on stage, and he defends every scripted jab at him. You would be amazed to see how these are set up to challenge his posistion, but he takes it like a champ every time, this video is but one example of his rare coverage, and even he asks why his polling wins aren't being talked about.

Don't let this slip by unnoticed, there is a chance to see behind the curtain, someone is standing up to the military industrial complex and they cannot do it without our support. He already has tons of it, but it is hampered by mainstream bias.

Watch the rest of the GOP candidates AND the audience reactions in the particular debates mentioned above and try to tell me I don't make sense asking people to please not be like the people in the audience of this clip.

Confessions of a Ron Paul Junkie

So here we go again right?

I'm just going to reiterate a point without beating around the bush. And then rant.

If you are planning on voting for Obama or McCain, then you won't get real and positive change.

If you think either has the intention or ability to stand up to and make the necessary corrections to our systemic corruption, you are wrong, they cannot do this alone even if they wanted to, which if they have a soul they probably do, but guess, what, they can't.

What else can we do? Besides voting for other candidates, should they even be allowed on a ballot, like Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and Cynthia McKinney, it would seem not much.... within this system.

Because even those who truly would make the effort to stand up, would fail if left to defend themselves against the current system.

So it would sound to me as though, something about this system needs to change altogether.

And that something, is us.

It would seem to me that we the people need to wake up, stop following and believing every preconcieved notion, authortative claim of fact and reality, and start re-educating ourselves.

Only then will we be knowledgable and honest enough to see what is truly wrong in order to fix it, in whatever way is needed.

So what do I suggest?

I suggest that those of us reading this who believe the system is fine start being honest with themselves about what they can and cannot know, and start looking outside of the box that is the left right paradigm, conventional wisdom, and "established fact".

I suggest those people take another, far less biased, look into information that falls or is pushed into the category of conspiracy theory.

And then I suggest all of us simply become more vocal in all our social circles, regardless of our posisitons, but with expressed purpose of attempting to come together and work towards learning all these positions and treating them with respect, as the individuals who hold them tend to all have the general welfare of all in mind, and then working on overcoming differences and achieving common goals.

Not just squabbeling.

It is time to overcome the divisiveness that has befallen us and the respective cases of silence and arrogance it has created that have either shut off our minds and or our wills. Making us either powerless or tools of destruction.

Because regardless of any differences, I believe that when it comes what is truly important we all share the same goals.

And the fact of the matter is, we are all facing some serious threats.

Thanks Ironwood for your honest, and possibly correct, thoughts. I agree with most of what you said. I believe the non-democratic way we elect our President doesn't serve us well in the modern world. Al Gore won by 1/2 million votes in 2000 and lost the election. If John Kerrey carried Ohio in 2004 (lost by only 20 thousand votes), he would have been elected, even though he only lost the election by 3 million plus votes. Let's select our leader by popular vote and become more democratic!

And thank you as well sir.

quote:

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I agree with most of what you said.

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I hear that a lot these days, but your reservasions are unwarranted.

Please, share your thoughts on what it is you do not agree with or do or do not feel knowledgable enough to speak against.

I am here to learn, and surely if you have some strong convictions that differ, if correct or most just and wise than we could all benefit, yes no?

Any further comments from me in context of your thoughts are now left to speculation, and that's no good.

But I burn for education and progress on such topics as this.

Do you feel the current system just lacks degrees of democracy, or is there more to be said here?

Do you feel that the popular vote is the primary issue or do you contend that it goes beyond this, such as the candidates, the process of entrance and selection of the candidates, etc.

Do you allow for the possibility that regardless of the face put on by our current system, such as more democratic through popular votes rather than electoral colleges, that any genuine persons to take roles of leadership or authority are subject to corruption due to a corrupt system?

In your referrencing of previous election outcomes, how would you explain and characterise the circumstances of these events and their relevance to our current system?

Of these things and more I find myself curious.