Why Do You NOT Believe In God? - Page 6

Sorry I didnt answer your question. The Enlightenment was a 18th century movement, during it, ideas of democracy, rule of law, secularism, the rights of man, freedom and equality were expressed for the first time in centuries. The Enlightenment lead to the will to free man from arbitrary rules, hence it lead to the American and French Revolutions.

And that's my point : it has NOTHING to do with the Bible. Christianity and religion in general has not provided the moral code for man that we use today. Things like freedom, equality, merit and democracy have nothing to do with the Bible, hence, man's morality and man's actions are dictated by the Reason in the Enlightenment, not the Bible (that is apart from in Iran, and right wing america.

from what i got from that, i wouldnt say i disagree with u dumbteen. but i must question the moral code we use today. what is it? we are legally allowed to kill people(capital punishment, abortion), have sex before marriage, and idol worship if we really want to. all those things are against Biblical principles. u probably disagree, but think for a moment that all society really were Christians. there would be no abortion because no one would be having sex outside of marriage, there would be no capital punishment, or any other punishment for that matter, because no one would lie, steal, or murder. i'm sorry, i said Christians, but Christians arnt perfect. i guess what i'm saying is what would happen if everyone was capable and willing to follow all the Bible to the letter? do u think the world would be better? and dont throw all those verses at me about the bible telling people to kill and such. if one really studies the Bible they will find that there are no contradictions. but then, how many people spend their life reading the Bible over and over and memorizing it?

what?!!!

Does this mean you have swept the bible of contradictions, don't give you verses, uh, what bible you readin?

There are no contradictions, how did you come up with that, I don't know if you realize the power of some of the ideas you just dismiss and trivialize, abraham or who ever was told by god to kill his kid, its is in the bible, along with the message don't kill, Sampson killed thousands of Philistines is a hero did so with the power given by god.

Does this mean that you have read it all and you didn't notice that or what?

Because often one of my biggest points is just that, religious people go around preaching teachings of the bible they haven't even read themselves. Many have, and this is where we get back into interpretations, but God's command of humans to kill is in the bible, God can kill anything anytime himself and after telling you not to, something doesn't make sense.

ok leftwood, easy, let me try to explain. no, i have not read the entire Bible, though i am working on it, i'm around Leviticus right now but thats beside the point. i am assuming that u hav not read the entire Bible either, and that we are on fairly equal grounds as far as our knowledge of it is concerned. i say again, the old testament and the new testament were different times. the rules of the old testament and the new testament are not always the same, but they dont contradict. i know that made no sense to u but give me a break, this isnt the easiest thing to explain. i have spoken with people who have read the entire Bible and studied it. one of the few advantages to going to a Christian school. according to them, the Bible does not have contradictions, only things that appear to be contradictions. your right, based on my own experience i have no right to say the Bible doesnt contradict itself, but then neither do u have any right to say it does.

"from what i got from that, i wouldnt say i disagree with u dumbteen. but i must question the moral code we use today. what is it? we are legally allowed to kill people(capital punishment, abortion), have sex before marriage, and idol worship if we really want to. all those things are against Biblical principles."
Absolutely, instead we have rule of law, we have democracy as far as possible, we have free education, in most of Europe the government practically doles out money to those in need and those who are lazy, we have freedom of expression and on and on.

We have a lot, we don't stone children to death, we don't kill zoophiles, we don't burn homosexuals to the stake anymore. Our values are far from biblical. We have values based on the principle of "don't do to others what you wouldn't want them to do to you" and general principles of freedom and equality.



" u probably disagree, but think for a moment that all society really were Christians."
All society in Europe anyway.

"there would be no abortion because no one would be having sex outside of marriage, there would be no capital punishment, or any other punishment for that matter, because no one would lie, steal, or murder."
That's not true. There were no abortions because they didn't have the technology and you will not find a single period of history in which people did not lie steal and commit adultery : the most religious time of Europe (the crusades, middle ages and Reformation) were some of the bloodiest times.

"willing to follow all the Bible to the letter? do u think the world would be better? and dont throw all those verses at me about the bible telling people to kill and such."
Yes I will find you those verses. If "everyone" followed the bible to the letter, there would be peace. But if "everyone" followed the law to the letter, there would be peace too wouldn't there? And if all the Christians of the world started practicing the bible to the letter, what would happen? First of all the orthodox, catholic and protestant branches would start killing each other. Second they would start slaughtering all the muslims and jews. Third they would try to convert the pagans in China and India.

But anyway, so it would be no better then if everyone obeyed the law.

dumbteen, let me explain to u the difference between the Christian religion and the Christain faith. yes there is one. throughout history there have been those who have called themselves Christians, and yet practiced no Christian principles. A christian is one who has accepted Jesus and given themselves over to him in everything they do.

i'm not talking about any time in history, because there has never been a time in history when the world, or even a small civilization, was truly Christian. a true Christian has Jesus living in them (excuse the overused line) and will feel incredible guilt whenever they do something that He does not approve of. i speak here from experience.

the law is made to correct problems. if the world was perfect, like it was supposed to be before people sinned, we wouldnt need a law, even the law God gave us. when God first made people, he didnt give any law except to reproduce, name the animals, and not eat from the tree of good and evil.

Well I wouldn't trust "real christians". They wouldn't lie, but they would kill homosexuals and zoophiles and tell me to abstain until marriage. They wouldn't drink beer and their women would wear headresses. No, no fun at all.

Yes, I really think the "good man" is the one who adheres to "do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you". As opposed to whatever somebody wrote in the Bible.

Reading the bible through and through does not make you an expert on the subject, and no i haven't read it all, what I have done found some parts that confuse me by contradicting itself or its rules and learned about them, the other thing about these people that you rely on who have read it, and in their interpretations, is that they aren't trying to find if it is true or not, or if it has contradictions, they are just trying to make you believe it and to prove it doesn't have contradictions, its called bias. The same goes for those who wrote it.

You haven't said anything, on this thread in case you have somewhere i haven't seen yet, as we appear to be leap frogging, about my point of the dude god told to kill his kid after the bible told him not too, where does that fit in your logic of lacking contradictions?

ok u guys, i'm slightly outnumbered here. let me adress dumbteen first. ur right. in the Bible it says to kill homosexuals, that they are an abomination to God. no i dont think that we should kill all gays. i have some gay friends, and though i dont agree with them, i dont intend to stick a knife in them either. God doesnt tell His people to administer justice. i think that is where u are getting confused. we are to tell people about God. it is God's job to punish and save. so it would be wrong for a Christian to judge or punish anyone. does that make sense to u?

Women dont have to wear head dresses. i certainly dont. jesus himself drank wine. he just told us not to get drunk, and as fun as it may be, it would be better for us if we didnt. i personally am saving myself for marriage. to me, it is a way of showing my dedication to my future husband.

I would think 07 is christian in fact (word & deed) not just the mouthing of words so Europe christian, is that another joke?
As the christian aspect of christ had to come to teach those values which were misconceptions of the Jews. God tested these people & they failed to follow His commandments. They failed if for no other reason than they did not understand the intent of the Law.
Jesus whom they call Christ, never taught these things which you have listed. For this reason I told those who seek to justify their actions as being christian ' If you follow the Law of Moses then you are condemned by the Law when you fail to adhere to it, a principle given by Jesus.
'Those quoting the OT are under the Law, those of the NT are of the Love of Christ. At least in accordance with the teaching of the NT.

im sorry leftwood, i dont know where ur talking about. if u could find the verse i would give u my opinion on it.

as to the bias, why, if they didnt believe what they teach, would they want to convince others?

does the bible actually say you should kill gays? as well as telling you not to kill? or did it just they were wrong and a abomination, and I would want to see the text that does either.

Once again about god telling people to kill, what about whats his nuts and the kid? Are you familiar with it?

Oh and did jesus say not to get drunk? I've heard debate on this. and again would like to see the text. so even refrences to chapters and what not would help

Unfortunately I can't find the exact quote saying women must be veiled here's a substitute :
"Exodus 3:8Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, ... nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's."
The woman is treated as no better then any other piece of property, such as an ass.

"we are to tell people about God. it is God's job to punish and save. so it would be wrong for a Christian to judge or punish anyone. does that make sense to u?"
If christianity was only that, it would be wrong, but not immoral. Unfortunately, Christianity is quite quite intolerant, at least if you know which bits of the bible to look at :
All from Exodus : "22:18
Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
That clearly calls out for the killing of 'witches', thousands of women have been burned/hanged/drowned because of this verse.
"23:24
Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images."
That means we must destroy the churches and worship of other gods : muslims, jews but especially Hindus, bhuddists and other pagans.

"31:14
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
Don't work on sundays or a christian will kill you!

Anyway, point is, the bible is intolerant even if (most) christians today are perfectly tolerant and reasonale people who luckily ignore the bible's nasty bits.

i'll do my best to find those verses leftwood. no, God didnt tell us to kill gays. we arnt allowed to kill. he said only that being gay was wrong. as i said on another thread, (ur right, we are leapfrogging) i hav gay friends and dont wish death on anyone.

i dont know the story about the kid. find the verse and i'll look it up.

yeah, jesus did say not to get drunk.