Iraq buildings NOT burning. - Page 2

Yes, and if things are so stable why is the draft being considered?

Name 3 instances in history where an organized military has defeated dedicated guerilla fighters. Even 1 would be nice to see.

God wanted Saddam to leave. According to a bunch of people in the Middle East, God wanted 3000 people to die at WTC. I'm with DumbTeen on this one.

We went into Iraq for the freedom of Iraqis! Whatever happened to the calls of WMD! WMD!

We know there are good things happening in Iraq, but the fact is, roadside bombings and suicide attacks that kill scores of people happen to overshadow some other things.

Extremist media and liberals go hand in hand? What did I just read about the papal majesty? Who's extremist? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE CRUSADES ARE!? That's what the papal majesty lead to. Of course, you probably thought the Crusades were a glorious endeavor.

"We bring freedom where we can, and we HAVE NEVER TOOK CONTROL of a country yet, so the money will be going back to the country."

Manifest Destiny. The Phillipines. Native American nations. Samoa. Puerto Rico. Guam. We've never tried to take control of countries before? Really?

The Gulf War, what we did in Serbia, World War II, World War I. These were credible actions. This war in Iraq was not.

When you criticize us for following the "liberal media" do you not realize that you are just listening to the "conservative media?" Conservative rhetoric is exactly the same as liberal rhetoric. Forget the "two choices" system. Realize that you have to think about yourself and what you think. Why don't you stop grouping people together and following the agenda of one people? Think like an individual.

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We know there are good things happening in Iraq, but the fact is, roadside bombings and suicide attacks that kill scores of people happen to overshadow some other things.

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So do drive by shootings here in america, and our own brand of terrorists, namely the ones who destroyed the Oklahoma building April 19th.

HEY are our police and military to blame?? Preposterous.

Draft.....MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH TROOPS..which is what DT was crying for...

And we were NOT a nation when we overtook native americans. We were not yet under a constitution now had an army....so that is mute point.

And I have yet to see besides Alaska AND Hawaii where we control another nation. They still have their own governments...unless you have some privy info that we are their president and leader. WHICH you do NOT!

WMD is still being investigated, and things are becoming clear...and if ya cry about Bush wanting this war...KERRY was all for it too....just dont say one green m&m is better than the other one, because Kerry spoke out against iraq with the information they ahd at the time...

incidently you apparently are NOT listening to news. They are uncovering alot....

Grip folks!

Whoa you posted that right before me.

The attacks on America? I thought this was about Iraqi freedom Patrish!

No, we don't just wait at home for terrorists. We go out there and kick the bee's nest to see if we can get stung a few more times.

Do you realize how much publicity a suicide bombing or organized attack would get in this country? These are not just your average murderers, Patrish.

Who knows the mind of God? Well, you do, I guess. You did just say God wanted Saddam out. I also forgot to mention last post that your beloved Pope was against the war.

Who did use the sword first Patrish? Huh? I believe we started this war. And don't tell us it was Saddam's fault what happened on September 11th happened. He was a horrible person, but he just didn't do that. Believe it or not, not all Arabs are the same.

You frustrate me beyond words.

"Draft.....MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH TROOPS..which is what DT was crying for... "

WHY DO WE NEED MORE TROOPS? HUH? WHY DO WE NEED MORE TROOPS? BECAUSE WE NEED STABILITY.

But these bombings kill 20 people at a time, Patrish, in a country less than a quarter the size of the continental U.S.

Actually, Patrish, none of the places I mentioned have their own governments except for The Phillipines since we moved out after WWII. The rest have our President as a leader, without the privileges of a state. Who has the info?

I thought we were only saying these things because the news told us, now were are supposed to listen to the news!?

And I never said I supported Kerry.

"And we were NOT a nation when we overtook native americans. We were not yet under a constitution now had an army....so that is mute point."
And that makes outright slaughter ok? The Iraqis don't have a consitution, and Iraq is not a true nation, so I guess there's nothing wrong with them killing and mutilating americans huh?

"Draft.....MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH TROOPS..which is what DT was crying for... "
There aren't enough troops because Bush went into Iraq on the false hope of being seen as a liberator. They should have prepared for this eventuality.

Either we smother another state and then rebuild a new one, or we don't go there at all.

"WMD is still being investigated, and things are becoming clear..."
I agree, its clear that even if Saddam was contemplating WMDs, it seems North Korea, Iran or even our ally Pakistan, are a far far greater threat to the US.

".just dont say one green m&m is better than the other one, because Kerry spoke out against iraq with the information they ahd at the time..."
But would have Kerry gone in unilaterally when the whole world was against it?

Point is, not only did Bush go into Iraq on skimpy information (the fact that they are NOW trying to desperately prove he had WMDs proves this) but he also went into Iraq with insufficient preparation. The result? An unstable Iraq and a political void. Not good unless we want a mullah-lead or generallissimo regime in Iraq.

Why, in a country that is trying to rid itself of all official references to God (like in the pledge of allegiance), would anyone think that our actions are God's will? God hasn't had too much trouble destroying countries/cities/governments/people in the past has he? Why, instead of using Israel as in the past, do we need to be doing "His" work? If God wants some dirty-work done, I suggest He get the Jews to do it for Him. After all, they are His chosen people! Right? Where does that leave us? With blood on our hands, doing what WE THINK is His will.
BTW the word is MOOT not MUTE regarding points. Mute is clever but incorrect.
US Colonialism is economic domination not physical occupation. Either way we control the countries we overrun. And remember ALL the countries we still occupy from WWII - not just Germany, Japan, England and Italy. Call it what you want, it is physical occupation in those cases.
There used to be a popular expression that 'all the battlefield decided in a war was which party would have the upper-hand at the negotiating table after the war.' In Iraq, we aren't even able to control that. Speaks volumes in regard to the relative strength of our current leaders.

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Name 3 instances in history where an organized military has defeated dedicated guerilla fighters. Even 1 would be nice to see.

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Not to say history cannot ever be made or break from that mold...eh? You think we cannot do it? Even the ppl in Iraq are and have in the past been rising up to help defeat this group.
Last time tho, we left them, and they got slaughtered.

Saddam is OR WAS IN CONNECTION TO N KOREA.

Let me say something folks...I see a pattern here!!!!

I make replies, and see the same rhetoric back over and over AND OVER AND OVER...LIKE AS IF NO ONE EVEN READS MY REPLIES...AND NOT TO MENTION THE SAME OLD DRUM BEAT.

LORDY dont liberals have any new 'arguments' the old ones are senseless, and outdated, but you still embrace them!!!

O, and the liberal news vs unbiased news....listen up.

Patri, as much as you & others hate to admit it, we are the cause of their negative feelings because we (assist) our government in its war (cold & other! We have no one to blame but ourselves. We have the Hell upon our heads, personally I for one will be glad when it comes down upon us.
We want to play little gods of the world then we have it coming & it is sure as HELL time for it to come. Peace is something you strife for, not something you murder for but we have gotten away withour murderso farso we think we can continue to do according to our will. We will make all live our lie or murder them. To Hell with the United States of the Abomination! Is that clear enough for You?
Oh, you are right to say this isn't Nam, just the same old tired lies & deceit as Viet Nam. Nothing new, just the same old war, new faces twisted in pain but the pain has pretty much remained the same. Thx ya Teen in advance I reeally do appreciate your comments.

"LORDY dont liberals have any new 'arguments' the old ones are senseless, and outdated, but you still embrace them!!! "
You haven't even answered them in any coherent way. You've only responded with accusations of being victim of liberal propaganda.

You continue to deny that there are either no WMDs in Iraq or not enough WMDs to make Iraq a threat to the US. You also continue to single-mindedly defend Bush when it is clear he invaded Iraq with insufficient preparation.

"I make replies, and see the same rhetoric back over and over "
If you made valid replies, instead of using accusations of us being liberal and religious rhetoric, then we wouldn't have to repeat our arguments.

"Not to say history cannot ever be made or break from that mold...eh?"
Well its sets a bad trend if we enter a war with the intention of going against every historical fact to date!

DumbTeen is exactly right. I even made a change in my replies asking you to please think individually. I criticized both conservative and liberal rhetoric and agendas. You are too stubborn to deal with, and your religious, neo-conservative blabber makes it too hard to read.

Of course we can break the mold, but when historical facts are all around us, when we know how things turn out, it is foolish not to try something from a different approach. By moving into Iraq in such a manner, with no plan for rebuilding (and don't tell me we had a plan, because if we did there wouldn't have been a year with no U.S. action other than that of being killed and bombed) and assuming we would be welcomed there by all.

Give us proof that Saddam had connections to North Korea, other than that Rush Limbaugh told you so. How does it feel to be generalized and grouped? Of course, this is just liberal rhetoric to you.

The best I can say for you, Patrish, is something I learned from the book 1984, which you would do well to read with your undying loyalty to our leader. It's that being a minority of one does not make you insane. Good luck with this nonsense of yours, maybe others won't find it as annoying as I did.

Look let us try to reason, as others have pointed out that after 911,
we went into Afghanistan.
So why did we go into Iraq, strange we have been arguing about War, right?
But the war is over & we won?
The only real way, to win a war is not to fight it, this is the truth.
So why are we on Iraq because the government needed a war?
We had many angry Americans, foaming at the mouth to go into Iraq?

We could have waited to go into Afghanistan, we could have waited to go into Iraq so why did we jump head long into Iraq?
We would have gotten more or less support, had we waited? Because we needed to keep the momentum of war while the high pitched fever of 911 was strong on our minds & in our hearts?
Those people, who wanted this war, have a purpose but they themselves are not willing to put their lives on the line for it. They are more than willing & able to con the nation (people) into putting their own or their children's lives on the line for their purpose.

As long as the nation (people) is willing to (allow) the government to control them (what they hear & what they do), the people will suffer for it.
It is not the nation (government) that will bring peace, it is the nation (people) by their unwillingness to war that will bring peace.

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Of course we can break the mold, but when historical facts are all around us, when we know how things turn out, it is foolish not to try something from a different approach. By moving into Iraq in such a manner, with no plan for rebuilding (and don't tell me we had a plan, because if we did there wouldn't have been a year with no U.S. action other than that of being killed and bombed) and assuming we would be welcomed there by all.

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We are the leader in a strong army, and without violence to the ppl of other nations, we have been able to at least attempt to stop the murders of innocents.

Danipog, you are 14, and you tell me to think for myself....?

Apparently you follow your parents drum, or the media, either or, but at 14 you are not even out of high school. So maybe the teachers are influencing you.

I have replied on a consistent basis to the 'quotes' I have received from certain members that Jesus does NOT want this...so please do not step in and assume to know where and why I am referring certain ideals from. Because you do NOT!

You are a public schooler...and have no clue what God is about, and same with DT. On the pretense you feel superior in 'free' thinking, makes you less a thinker, and more a follower of the system we see entrenching our nation.

Inclusive is the liberal mindset.
YOU say you are NOT liberal, but your posts speak differently.

I watched the war movement from day 1 on Fox news.
I watched when nothing else was being showed. IT was strictly the war.
Afganistan was not our enemy, altho they werent approving of the war (The ppl), they (their Government) applied help to our side....so what's up with the Aphganistan comments?

The war has been over since April of last year.
AND the Iraqi's WON! They have a freedom, thanks to the brave young souls who 'choose' to become a military force.
I KNOW MEN RETURNING FROM IRAQ...and they are happy with the president, and you folks, who are not in this battle, seem to be 'speaking out against' the war, when you are NOT there!

IF anyone has the right to gripe or complain and whine, it would truly be the soldiers....and are they?
NO.

None of the men I know are....and they seem to feel gr8 about their mission. They are feeding young children, getting medical attention, and getting an education.....and clean water...

SO which of you begrudges the children these necessary life sustaining items?

YOU need further proof that Saddam is connected to terrorism, but I gave you the heads up...and still you proclaim the same rhetoric.

You ask about WMD, and yet it was shown they are or were, in colloboration to N Korea, and I keep hearing how rotten N Korea is...and we got their ally, but still...no attention is heeded.


And this is NOT from Rush Limbaugh, who I do not listen to, and incidently cannot pull this from the air and program it as truth if it were a bold fat lie.

The only liars are the media..who know the facts, but with hold them, because it is election year. Who is the one duped? The society who depends on the liberal reporting...and YOU cannot tell me, that your 'information' is NOT stemming from them either.

You either listen to their 'reports' or you do not listen to any, and therefore have not a clue what is going on.
SO which is it?

"Inclusive is the liberal mindset. "
Fuck this. Stop lumping us into groups like that. I refuse to be lumped together with the socialists. I stand for social justice and personal liberties and I am against both democrat demagoguerie and republican oligarchy.

"IF anyone has the right to gripe or complain and whine, it would truly be the soldiers....and are they?
NO. "
What the hell? There are plenty of letters of discouraged soldiers. Complaing that their return date is being pushed back and back again.

"You ask about WMD, and yet it was shown they are or were, in colloboration to N Korea, and I keep hearing how rotten N Korea is...and we got their ally, but still...no attention is heeded."

Actually answer this : Did Iraq pose a threat to United States security?
As for the N.Korea-Iraq link... Pfft, who falls for that 'axis of evil' crap?

The threats to the United States are in Saudi Arabia, where the US presence spawns each day new terrorists. Threats are in Pakistan, where an unstable nuclear generallissimo regime could collapse giving the terrorists nuclear weapons. Threats are in N.Korea which makes no secret of its nukes.

"We are the leader in a strong army, and without violence to the ppl of other nations, we have been able to at least attempt to stop the murders of innocents. "

WITHOUT violence to people of other nations?

"Danipog, you are 14, and you tell me to think for myself....?

Apparently you follow your parents drum, or the media, either or, but at 14 you are not even out of high school. So maybe the teachers are influencing you. "

Patrish, you are 37 and with all your obvious knowledge and wisdom, turn to ageism when you can't handle a 14-year old's arguments. Why respond to my lowly posts if they mean nothing? Huh? You're no better than me, so get back on an even level.
My teachers don't involve their political views in their lessons, and I am constantly disagreeing with my parents on political issues every day. And stop blaming the goddamn media when you seem to watch Fox News at all times of the day.

"You are a public schooler...and have no clue what God is about, and same with DT. On the pretense you feel superior in 'free' thinking, makes you less a thinker, and more a follower of the system we see entrenching our nation."

Maybe I don't give a fuck what you think God is. To you, God is something that backs all of your opinions and cannot believe that what the United States is doing could ever be wrong. To me, that's not God. I'm not such a religious person, but to people like you religion is a sick excuse for your ideas which have no support. For you, George W. Bush himself might as well be the living incarnation of God.

Oh and I guess not joining the sheep in their mindless toil until death isn't thinking freely. I thought you were for thinking freely? You know, against the evil "liberal media" and all?

"Inclusive is the liberal mindset.
YOU say you are NOT liberal, but your posts speak differently."

So I have a liberal mindset. You, obviously, have a conservative one taken from what you see on conservative TV and hear on conservative radio. Don't you realize we are never getting past this liberal-conservative stuff? I tried to explain that but you didn't seem to understand. You just keep bringing up the left-right conflicts and claiming I'm a subconscious liberal.

Just so you know, recruitment is way down for the National Guard. When this happens during wartime, it is a clear sign the people are against it.

"You ask about WMD, and yet it was shown they are or were, in colloboration to N Korea, and I keep hearing how rotten N Korea is...and we got their ally, but still...no attention is heeded."

Give me proof, cold and hard. Who showed you Saddam Hussein was in collaboration with North Korea? Give me a source.

"The only liars are the media..who know the facts, but with hold them, because it is election year. Who is the one duped? The society who depends on the liberal reporting...and YOU cannot tell me, that your 'information' is NOT stemming from them either.

You either listen to their 'reports' or you do not listen to any, and therefore have not a clue what is going on.
SO which is it?"

Well, you did just say you watched Fox News non-stop. Where do YOU get YOUR facts? Answer a question straight up this time. Oh, and this stuff you say about the media would be considered by most as "free thinking" which you are so opposed to.

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And we were NOT a nation when we overtook native Americans. We were not yet under a constitution now had an army.... so that is mute point.

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The Native Americans, who lived here, welcomed & helped those who came here first, (Thanksgiving => turkey dinner) until we started taking their lands and mistreating the people. In native culture, the nation is the people not the governing body.
As the ownership of property was the necessary to obtain the rights of citizenship acted as catalysis for expansion into the Indian Territory. This of course promoted friction between colonial desire to possession of land & native use of land as their territorial domain. After the French – Indian war, these tribes were relocated to various reservations. Those tribes, who had moved into other's tribal lands, found themselves either fighting with each other or the Americans. Americas expansion seeking land & mineral wealth lead to violations of reservations, the resulting conflict brought the Calvary to restore order, generally resulting in Indians being moved on to new reservations, generally less viable lands (Trail of Tears). Where starvation & disease produced near genocide of tribes of Indians. The remnants of various tribes were massed together, stripping them of their traditions, language & cultural values. These actions were not performed subsequent to the formation of the United States.