900 years of the West against Islam - Page 2

it works if they're enriched by it!
Japan and Korea's cultures were so different from Americo-european some thought it was impossible for a shift to a corporate culture.

However, both countries have succesfully westernised.

I think we need to set some things straight here. It did not start with the crusades as the original argument stated. Muslim armies conquered Arabia, Syria, Egypt, the Persian Empire, the coast of North Africa, and Spain in the seventh and eighth centuries. The advance into Europe was not checked until Muslim armies were defeated by Charles Martel at the battle of Tours in 732. Your assertion that this is a religious war is equally ludicrous. What don't you understand about Al-Quaeda wanting to kill us. The possibility of these terrorist buying Iraqi WMD was just to great. Don't be naive and say there were no WMD (sarin artillary shell used on roadside bomb today in Iraq). We can be naive and let things happen to us and respond like Clinton or we can be proactive. Any comparison to Vietnam is also inaccurate. The only comparison between the two is the media. How it costs us the war in Vietnam and how it is damaging our efforts in Iraq.

Yes, I do trust my country and leaders to believe they are able to "liberate" another country. We have shown that we are not imperialist. We do not want Iraq as a territory. As far as first strike, UN resolution 1441 authorized use of force to make Saddam comply. Do not forget, we are at war. As far as the economy, 8.2%, 4.2%, 4.1% increases the last three quarters in GNP. I would say that is a booming economy. More people are employed today than any other time in history. 139 millionworking Amerians (comapared to 137.5 million when Bush took office). I would say things are looking good. I will agree that the educational system with the liberal agenda is "hacked". Saddam average killing over 300 people a day for over 15 years. So, you are saying over 100,000 people have died as a result of our involvement? Even the most liberal numbers are far from that. Seems you have a lot of facts incorrect.

"The US economy is dead, the US dollar is dead, the US people are not happy, the US educational system is hacked, and everyone around the world hates the US."
That's FAR too strong Decius.
The US is still #1, even if its position is declining.

Hmm, I have a what some consider a high income job (6 figures) and I always thought it was the American dream, not greed. How silly of me. As far as the greed part, charitable organizations and my church would disagree with your assessment also. In addition, the thousands of hours of community service in various organizations kind of skews your point of view that the almighty dollar is the bottom line.

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Greed is the basis of life for anyone in a high income bracket. You do not become rich unless you are greedy. If you are greedy, you care only for what people can give you, not what you can give them. Hence, trusting an administration like this is like giving the keys to your house to Snake the neighbourhood rapist.

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Cruel but true.

IUHoosier - the rich do support this administration, because this administration takes care of the rich. The rich support a war in Iraq because it means money. Last figure I heard was 25 billion in contracts over Iraq, that's just a small portion of it. We create a reason to have a war so we can make money. We don't want to go to war with a country that is Christian (check). It has to have lots of money (check) and natural resources (check). Iraq, it's perfect.

But the greedy don't admit to greed, they make up reasons to justify a cause and actually believe it. That's whats really sad, you believe your own b*ll sh*t.

Let's see, war ended in 732 so we decide, nearly 400 years later to retaliate??? Which war of retaliation is next??? Shall we go back 400 years? 2004-400=1604??? England and Spain? Why?
Since the beginning of the Crusades our western Christian culture has been trying to eradicate the Islamic culture. When was the last time a Muslim knocked on your door and asked if you were "really saved"? When was the last time the Muslims sent missionaries to other countries to try to convert them from their pagan ways? We have, are, and will be fighting Islam until we destroy or are destroyed. Perhaps I am jaded. Perhaps I look for changes in our culture in all the wrong places. Perhaps Mary, mother of Jesus, wasn't really sent to live with her sister in another town when she was found to be pregnant and unmarried like we did to our daughters in the 1950's and 60's. Perhaps the Jews and the Philistines (oops, sorry, the Palestinians) got their sh*t together and aren't still fighting 3000+ years later. Perhaps times and circumstances change. Perhaps some of us have our heads buried in the sand. Perhaps our president is counting on that.

Nonesense squateam. The US didn't eradicate paganism in Japan or Catholicism in Italy.
The US is a strongly religious country, but it doesn't represent White Anglo-Saxon Protestants, it represents democracy, political and economic freedoms.
The US may not always manage to bring these values to those it fights (in fact often just the opposite), but when it does, the results can be spectacular.

Being in Nam, the one thing which changed my mind about that war and this one is unlike our own struggle for independence, we revolted & sought aid in our fight for independence. They weren't, for the greater part the people were not supportive of these war. It is not democracy if the people don't want it. P.S. I'm not talking about those who want to get rich of war.

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The US may not always manage to bring these values to those it fights (in fact often just the opposite), but when it does, the results can be spectacular.

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I know that I mentioned this before but in case you missed it: the fact that in this country (USA) the needs of the people are dependent more on paying lobbyest than voting. In fact a while back (way back) there was a bit of a stink when the story broke in the news that S. Korean (?) was using the funds we were sending them to reinvest them, in lobbing for more!