John kerry out of touch with UN - Page 4

[Sorry, but we are the greatest benevolent nation on earth and for that matter, of all time.]

That's what Rome, Greece, Assyria, Babylon, etc. thought. And we've only been around 221 years. Arrogance, coupled with bully pulpit tactics, helped to pull down these empires. We should learn from history.

I'm with you caves, we need to get out of the empire building mode & into live & let live at peace mode.

You are absolutely wrong. Please re read about the Roman and Greek empires. It was all about expansion and conquest. Do I need to state the foreign aid this country gives out every year? Can you name one present or past civilization that has equaled ours? Need serious arguments here. Learn from history? Perhaps one should read it first.

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Can you name one present or past civilization that has equaled ours? Need serious arguments here. Learn from history?

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My argument is in the judeo-christian words 'Sin lying in wait at the door'
or old fashion ideas like 'priming the pump', it is sometimes neccessary to prime the pump to get it flowing before you can siphon the well.
Are these things done to truely help the people?
If we want to help other nations, wouldn't we seek technological advances which serve their societies as they exist? Isn't the driving force of our technology toward WMDs to rule the world, instead of finding viable alternatives which will reduce dependency & destructive abuse of resourses?

[You are absolutely wrong. Please re read about the Roman and Greek empires. It was all about expansion and conquest.]

I've been reading about ancient history for 30 years.
Expansion and conquest: In the eyes of much of the world, that's exactly what we are doing now.

Of course we have a great country. And I want it to remain that way. My point was, if you'll read it again, that the attitudes of those past empires were not unlike the way we feel about ourselves today. And to use this cockiness to spread Americanism is exactly what the Romans did. Are you denying that the Romans felt their empire to be invincible?

[Can you name one present or past civilization that has equaled ours?]

Equaled in what way? The fact that the Romans conquered and controlled much of the known world before the invention of gunpowder is quite remarkable. Foriegn aid? Yes we do a great deal of that, and God bless us. But if you'll notice the aid is given to those who go along with our policies. Remember we gave aid to Saddam back in the 80's.

I'm not denying the greatness of our country, I just think we need to be aware that we are not the only humans inhabiting this planet. To think that we are holier than thou is a big mistake.

[Can you name one present or past civilization that has equaled ours?]
Equaled in what way? benevolence!
We are not trying to make Iraq part of the US. That is total nonsense. We are not imperialistic. As far as aid goes, your wrong again. The vast majority of countries that we give aid to votes a majority of the time against us in the UN. Yes, we gave aid to Saddam. We also fought a war against Britain. So, what was that point. Situations change over time.

America is the greatest consumer of oil and the middle east has the most of it. Iraq having 115,000 barrels in reserve while we only have 22,000. (recent national geographics) So - we are in Iraq to free the Iraqis - Right

[We are not trying to make Iraq part of the US. That is total nonsense. We are not imperialistic.]

I didn't say we were. As you said "situations change over time", yes they do. Over time, expansionism has taken on new meanings. Globalization, Americanism for example. Economic conquest is exactly what Richard Pearle spoke of with his Vulcan group. Where the interest of the US is involved is where this 'conquest' takes place. Think of it as a war with no bullets. There is nothing wrong with spreading capitalism, but lets do it in a civilized manner.

I can agree upon that!

There's nothing wrong with invading Iraq, if it is to spread capitalism and democracy it is an inherently good thing as it replaces something far worse, Saddam.
However, this invasion has not replaced Saddam with democracy and capitalism because the invasion force was far too small. It was too soon after Afganistan and there weren't enough of America's strong allies (as opposed to Britain and 30ish minors) involved.

The result? Saddam has been replaced by instability and a political void. Every extremist group is now attempting to fill that void, hence the difficulties of the occupation forces in containing the insurgents. Democracies fail where there is violence and instability (as opposed to occupied Japan/Korea/Germany).

There's nothing wrong with toppling dictators, however lets do it competently.

The day I left the US for what I thought would be the last time, April 7, 1976 I bought a newspaper in NYC to read on the plane. The headlines were "Congress cuts aid to Israel by $11 million." When I arrived in Europe I bought a copy of the 'International Herald Tribune'. Their headlines were "US Congress opts to keep aid to Israel at same level as last year." Cut? And aid for what? A couple of years later the US in their benevolence granted $110+ million in "aid" to Spain. In Spain, the papers stated that the US had rented the air bases and port bases for another 10 years for $110+ million. Aid? Rent? Benevolence is giving without expectation of recompense. Buying loyalty or paying rent is NOT benevolence. It is imposing your style of colonialism with money, and in some instances, with troup bases. Occupation by the military is still colonialism. Occupation by bribe is even more so.
If I went around this country and purchased ALL the tickets to see Michael Moore's film "Fahrenheit 9/11" would that be benevolence (paying but not permitting the possibility of others in to see) or imperialism? I guess it depends on which side of the coin you are. On this side where we have to pay the 'whores', or on the other side where the 'whores' have to make a living and will take whatever the 'Johns (or Sams) will pay for the pleasure of their company. But when push comes to REAL shove, whom do you want on your side???? Whores may be nice to be in bed with, but will 'she' take a bullet for you??? Benevolent, my ass. We will do whatever we want as long as we have to money to pay for it. When we run out of money, we will be overrun by infidels (or Canadians). Infidels being those 'hos' that wouldn't take our money or the ones that did so they could be the next in line to run our collective 'civilization' into the ground.

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"Popular dissidents are merely pacifiers given to us by the Government to keep us in line and thinking someone is making a ruckuss."

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Enjoyed hear someone else tell the truth, thank you. In reading your saying as much as I dislike it, like it or not 'the truth is contained within it'.
People call it a democracy, not that I have seen it?
I guess it is like the soul or God,
something you have to accept on faith.

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The fact that the Romans conquered and controlled

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But we do NOT.

How many times do you folks need reminded that this is about terrorists...who will NOT stop at attacking us.
Read my thread for Democrat amigos.

[How many times do you folks need reminded that this is about terrorists...]

But how many times must we remind you of the reasons for this war. It had nothing to do with terrorists!!!!! WMD's, again WMD's, "immenant threat", "regime change". Sound familiar? If it doesn't, or if you feel the need to back-peddle, check out the link.

[http://www.moveon.org/censure/caughtonvideo/]