Gay Bishop?? - Page 4

Yes...but as DT pointed out, that would be breaking the Freedom of Religion.

The thing isn't that if you believe in a god that hates homosexuals (which is stupid, because god apparently created everything, so what are homosexuals? a sick joke to him?) then you can keep them out of your church, and they can found their own. The thing is that it is allowed to happen.

"(which is stupid, because god apparently created everything, so what are homosexuals? a sick joke to him?)"
We are not debating the legitimacy or logic of a religion. We are debating people's right to practice their religion in whatever way they choose so long as it does not infringe another's freedom.

" The thing is that it is allowed to happen."
I don't understand the problem.

The problem is that religions are allowed to discriminate... it isn't irrelevent.

Its their religion Deletion, not yours. You gain nothing from joiningand lose nothing for not joining their religion, EXCEPT in the eyes of their religion. Now, IF you see the world through the eyes of their religion (and therefore believe gays go to hell) then you would have a valid reason to join but you'd be more considered about your sexual orientation.
I reiterate : people freedom's is absolute so long as it does not infringe another's freedom. And I don't care if they discriminate, they're not oppressing you, they're not stopping you from getting any special bonuses you get for joining (there are none) and they are simply practicing their religion. If that bothers you, well tough, they are free to practice their religion so long as it does not infringe another's freedom, that goes for you too, you could create a "no anti-gay church* which stresses that all joiners should love all the world's people, including gays.

Above & beyond the question of the gay issue, was a deeper consideration?
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About Sodom & Gomorrah, if you read (Gen18 &19) note that during the daylight the town gates were open to invite travellers & traders into the city. At night, they were locked in where the locals would fall upon those foolish enough to fall prey to them? which had vexed Lot.
That these people were so beastly that their desire to have (the angels) these beautiful men which had come into their lair that Lot trying to divert them offered up his daughters.
But these men understood that they would have taken Lot's children & still would not have passived their desire. Part of their desire was to (sodomize) disrespect their person (being) with physical & emotional abuse, beyond animalistic drive for sexual satisfaction.

While studying with some Christians I had a chance to study Koine Greek text. One of the parish (members) was a language teacher so they were teaching it so that the people could go to greek versions for translation into English.
I am not good withlanguages so I didn't learn a lot but I did note that in Greek different context of word are given by pre or post addition to the root word, I also noted that the Greeks had a number of distinct words which we translate as love.
Noting that the bretheren greeted each other with a kiss (Holy), a sign of love and affection toward each other. We should consider that the (form) act of love is the distinction upon which the Churches deems as being acceptable or not?
http://www.captaincynic.com/thread.php3/frmid=12-u-thrdid=23985-u-page=1
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Hi there I just began reading this forum and have found some very interresting statements being made. I only got as far as the middle of the first page and already you have struck a chord for me!
As far as a homosexuals not believing in the Bible, because it does not believe in you... Well, that is not necessarily true. As I have said in some other posting on homosexual issues, the Bible was written in Hebrew and some words in Hebrew have many meanings and depending on which meaning we use shapes how the moral of the story will be perceived...
If there are any homosexuals out there who love Christ, but are having internal conflict because of the way your religion is interpretting the Bible, check out this website on the different interpretations and other applicable articles:
www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marint3.htm
Religion and homosexuality CAN coexist!!!
The only reason people believe they cannot is because they have only read narrowminded interpretations of the Bible.
Now having said all this, I must admit I, myself, am not terribly religious... I only know of these different interpretations because I have done a lot of research into the subject of "the morality of homosexuality."
I have a brother who is openly gay (thank, God he works for Delta... they are somewhat tolerant.) and has been married to his partner for well over 5 years now! They have a cairing, meaningful relationship that is easily comparible to my own relationship with my Husband. Often times, their relationship is more stable than my own; don't get me wrong, this is only due to the fact that we have been married for two years compared to their five! I do not know if my brother wants to have children, but I believe they are just as capible and often more capible of raising children than many military families around me. They are most certainly more stable! I also believe they have the right to the same benefits provided to heterosexuals through the official recognition of their marriage. At this point in time, if my brother were to get in a horrible car wreck and was critically injured, his partner would not be able to see him; this is due to the fact that he is not "immediate" family. This problem, along with others would be solved if the government would give them their right to marry under the law!!!!
As for the Episcopalian Bishop! This is the first church that is finally beginning to set straight a discriminatory wrong that has been distorted and inflicted for too many years! Good for them! I hope more religions begin to filter through the haze of hate and intolerance and see the true meaning behind the Bible!!!

UnderDawg: There are two problems (one practical and one theoretical) for relying on literal texts for guidance in moral issues.
The practical problem is that sacred texts, especially ones composed a very long time ago, often give us more than we bargain for. Even though this applies mainly to the old testament it is true for the new testament as well.
The theoretical problem is your biggest downfall, though. "In the logic of moral reasoning, the reference to the text [the Bible in your case] drops out, and the reason behind the pronouncement (if any) takes its place. " This is a direct quote from a respected philosopher by the name of James Rachels and can be found in his very influencial book: The Elements of Moral Philosophy
So then, what is the reasoning behind the idea that homosexuality is immoral? Do you have any logical reasons?

Again this is to Underdawg:
Consider the homosexual life (without looking at their bedroom time!!! That's private!) Homosexuals live in hiding all or most of their life. They live in fear of being "found" out and losing their jobs, friends, families, etc. They have unstable relationships most times, because there is not support system for them. They live in an environment where AIDS is a higher risk. They read in papers about hate crimes, prejudice, and discrimination against them! Would you CHOOSE this life? Of course not!!! What are the benefits? Do the benefits outweigh the undesirable outcomes? I should think not. Yet, hundreds of homosexuals are out there dealing with the negativity around them. WHY?
I honestly do not know whether or not homosexuality is a choice, that is still up for debate; but is it really that big of an issue anyway?
What would happen if scientists came back to say homosexuality is NOT a choice (I am not saying it is or isn't, mind you, just hypothetically speaking...)? Would we all of a sudden believe that it is NOT immoral? What if the opposite happened? Would we suddenly KNOW that it IS immoral? We still have the question of why is it immoral? Nobody has given a logical reason to answer this...
Please feel free to give me some insight into this issue...

This will be my last post for the night, because as you can see I am on my way to getting published... I want to comment on the idea that teaching discrimination within a church does not hurt any other person's freedoms. Did I understand you correctly...?
How can you even say that? When you teach discrimination within a church, it does not disapear once you walk out that church door does it? Many hate crimes are committed due to discrimination!!! When discrimination is taught to a group of people, that discrimination becomes a part of their lifestyle. Many people believe that religion is part of their life. That would make the discriminatory religious teachings part of their life!!! Therefore, it most certainly DOES affect those liveing around and amongst that religion!
I can give you a personal example:
I come from the LDS capital of the world: Utah
Most of my classmates did not know I was non-denominational until my first years of highschool, where I began to establish my own identity. When I wore large crosses or "inappropriate" clothes; people, friends even, kept telling me, "I thought you were Mormon...!"
Of course, I would tell them, "No, I am Non-Denominational."
Their common response was, "But you are so... Good! I would have thought your would have believed in God."
First of all, because I am "Good" I must be Mormon and because I am Non-Denominational, I do not believe in God.
Part of this is just misunderstanding, but after people found out I was NOT mormon; their views about me changed. They suddenly only noticed my flaws (all of which did not suddenly appear, but have always been a part of me; all humans are flawed)...
No matter where discrimination is taught it does not stay confined to that area, it spreads like a plague! Thaink about that when you say religions should be allowed to practice open discrimination!!!
By the way I am not angry, a little perturbed, but not angry... Just liked the smiley.
One must think about the consequences of our actions! Discrimination, no matter what the pretext, is always harmful and is ALWAYS immoral!!!!

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How can you even say that? When you teach discrimination within a church, it does not disapear once you walk out that church door does it? Many hate crimes are committed due to discrimination!!!
When discrimination is taught to a group of people, that discrimination becomes a part of their lifestyle. Many people believe that religion is part of their life. That would make the discriminatory religious teachings part of their life!!! Therefore, it most certainly DOES affect those liveing around and amongst that religion!

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So what is the point?
Should the Leage of Red Haired Men include women,
who dye their hair?

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"No, I am Non-Denominational."

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Define 'non-denominational'