Idea of the "perfect" government? - Page 2

First off i would like to say this is my first post on this forum, and it looks cool, hope i don't mess it up too bad . Now down to bussiness.
In my oppinion what it really comes down to is "what is government for?". Now to me it is to allow growth of its people in a safe enviorment. So obviusly capitalisum is the way right, i mean that is the deffinition right? Some say "no".
Now on the other end of the spectrum and the biggest group agianst capitalisum is communisum. Now both are great ideas in theory, on one hand you have all the money you want you just need to work for it. On the other everyone is protected by eachother, and everyone works the same amount. The truth is every one wants at least a little of both, but a government can really only be one or the other. But why rely on government alone? I belive that government should be capitalist, and the people should enjoy communisum among friends and family, and share what every wealth or talents they have. This way money can flow through the government, and can be split amoung eachother by choice. Thats all for me

about authority- already in another post, but all well-

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are or where we are going in this ocean of chaos... it has been the authorities- the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us ORDER, RULE, REGULATIONs... and in doing so, informing- forming in our minds, their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, openmindedness, chaotic confused vulnerability to inform yourself.

THINK FOR YOURSELF. QUESTION AUTHORITY." -timothy leary

Why on this earth would you quote Leary: the man who found that the ergot fungus could be harnassed for recreational drug use? So, we might ascertain from Leary that for one to think for himself one must altogether stop thinking for himself by taking LSD. Now, he did not say that in the blurb. All things considered, though, if one knows about Leary's LSD association, and then reads the blurb, then one would most likely be inclined to logically conjoin Leary's LSD association with the blurb.

Try reading Jean-Paul Sartre if you want insight about questioning authority. Sartre was an existentialist philosopher who's philosophies were widely read when Leary was concocting ways in which to hurt the youth. In fact, any good idea Leary had was most likely stolen from Sartre.

The problem with all governments I've seen much of is a system that allows corruption and greed within the governing power structure. I'm not against people working extra hard for more, but raping people through messed up tax systems and flat out theivery in a military industrial complex gone mad is a problem.

When a handful of corporations and a handful of people really own them, you start getting small groups of people controlling the government, especially when the CEO's start becoming president and various other governmental posistions (all at once even), then you also start to get control of the economy and stock market to where you end up with an oligarchy or whatever.

If we didn't have a rediculous war machine and constant war, things would be different, and we have to get rid of the rediculous mass raping banking system hell bent on taking money while giving out and taxing money they don't have. These people are making billions by giving out money they don't have and then charging you tax on it, which used to be illegal, and is if you do it, its called FRAUD and its a felony.

No governmental system matters at the moment, our world is controlled by a world economy based on a world military industrial complex owned by corporations and bankers, untill these two systems and the various corruption in ALL the governments that allows the swindling of trillions of dollars to be fed into this monster, nothing will change.

These people already own most of everything, they are bleeding countries dry through wars that no longer produce the jobs that actually save an economy. Which never really happened, unemployment went down during WWII mostly because most working age men were fighting and dying and women were actually taking riveting jobs.

This is turning into a population control situation. Once the elite handfuls of the world own everything, around 80% of the population becomes a total liability. And with rampant corporate industrialism to maintain assinine living standards we are destroying our planet and its resources. Again solved by less people.

Slave labor is not necessary to keep a country afloat, corruption and greed create this "necessity".

When the Pentagon says oops, we somehow lost 3 trillion dollars, which has been equated to something like spending a thousand dollars a minute since the birth of Christ, and then ask for a budget increase, triple will do, you know there is a problem.

This is the rediculousnous we face and must change. And THEN try to figure out what government works.

This is why when we have this perfectly reasonable discussion that none of the answers seem to fit.

It doesn't have to be this way, and don't worry about taking money from these creatures, they have been raping you and your families for generations now, and laughing all the way to the bank. Illegally, so stripping them of their fortunes to give back to the people isn't a hand out, its taking back what we've rightfully earned.

These people are corporate criminals, plain and simple, and just because they were able to buy politicians and became them, which allowed this egregious abuse, doesn't mean its right or legal, and even laws can be illegal and lawfully disobeyed, at least by our constitutional society, which is dissappearing.

Our country is not poor, we make rediculous money because of stock investments that are never included in the debt budget system, our government makes so much money automatically now that they could be paying us taxes. The problem is they base budgets on what needs to be spent and get the money from taxing us, instead of using the money this machine is generating.

Its all a sham, we need to wake up and bring these criminals to justice, give the money and power back to the people.

I can't even fathom what life would be like, but anything is going to be better than where we are heading.

When there is a third world population within the richest country on the planet, something is wrong.

And as for capitalism, just remember, balance is necessary in all things, to the point where balance will occur, either the easy way or the hard way, joy from greed fades quickly, joy from being able to respect yourself and your governmental system, well, I'll let you know how that is once it ever happens.

*warning, I am typing on a really crappy keyboard, so through out this post I am most likely missing letters such as g,h,v,t,y,r,u,or n, or anything else for that matter. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK, of a head ache*

Well said lefty, how ever while agreeing with you, i must also throw in my 2 cents... well maybe 3 .

In my oppinion you all might be looking a governmen the wrong way. It is not that there is no perfect goernment. All goernments are indeed perfect if used correctly. We just are not useing goernment properly.


How so, you might ask. Well it is my oppinion that we are trying to control too many people with one government. Think about it, if you have a group of 5 people all relying on each other so much that no one can live with out the other 4, no one can abuse the other people with out being abused themselves. Let me point out that abuse is what all complants about government are, that and neglagence which I consiter abuse in this topic.

The problem comes into play when you have too many people. If you don't need some one to support you, you can bully them with out worrying about any penalities. It is when people don't need some one, that abuse comes in to play. That is why I think we must make mini-countries of population no bigger then 500. This may seem small, but that is the point. If you have 500 people in a country all of them probly know each other, and all rely on each other pretty heavly, so you can't abuse any of them, if any one wants to live, how ever with 500 you could probly live if a small disater takes out 10 of them or something. With so many towns there would be alot of trade, but all the people would know that if any city's population got to big, its own people would suffer, so with any hope, people would stear clear of this. about ever 5 years, there would be a "mission year" where all towns with over 500 people would call out for people to become "settlers" and set up a new town with settlers from other countries, this would help to aviod over population, as well as inerbreeding.

Every country could come up wih its own laws, and is own way of carring 'em out, because really they would all be the same laws every where. Pretty much the only law would be the golden rule, since you rely on every one, you can't really brake that rule, the only enforcing you need to do, is boycott your survices from any one who abuses you, since they need your services, they will come to some agreement with you eventualy.

This may sound like communisum, fudalisum, anarchisum, or what ever else, and it basicly is all of them, just on a much smaller scale, which makes them work better at least in my oppinion.

However, I'm sure that the only way for this ot happen you would need, a huge plage, or a gigantic war (which is bound to happen some time ). As for me, I have my plan under the "general disscssion" part of this page, titled "new country"

I also enjoyed Utopia but not for the same reasons as you. More's primary purpose was pointing out the failings of the English system in such a way as to not get his head chopped off.

Regarding socialism it is More himself that provides, in Utopia no less, the best argument against it. 'I don't believe you'd ever have a reasonable standard of living under a communist system. There'd always tend to be shortages, because nobody would work hard enough. In the absence of a profit motive, everyone would become lazy, and rely on everyone else to do the work for him' (p. 67).

In this instance More was truly prophetic as he described the exact causes that lead to the downfall of the great communist utopias of the past hundred years.

I believe the perfect governemnt would a modertly complex government, in which one can vote ike democracy, but corruption is reduced by not having a pure leader. Companies are controlled by the government to stop the companies from abusing their workers like they do in the U.S. I really believe workers have rights, but they shouldn't be given everything. They should just get as much as they work. The harder the job the better the pay.

to me the perfect government does not and could not exist....with government comes power...with power comes curruption....so,for me, a perfect government is not at all possible

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In my oppinion what it really comes down to is "what is government for?". Now to me it is to allow growth of its people in a safe enviorment. So obviusly capitalisum is the way right, i mean that is the deffinition right? Some say "no".

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Capitalism let's see . . .hmm. Government pays corporations to produce those goods which serve the people?
Ya, we put satillites in orbit mapping locations on the earth, from these they obtain not only military intell but the locations of mineral, food, oil deposits, etc. Leak a little insider info to those corporations so they go into those areas (countries) buying exploration rights (of course they known were to look already ) then taking the lion's share. When the people start to feel like their country is being raped for profit. Send in the military but they need a cover (ah, the War on Drugs, how convienent), right that is how it works isn't? Well that isn't the way it was supposed to work but hell as long as we profit, what does it matter. oh yes, now it is the WAR on Terrorism! We need more oil.

Micro management has always led to failure, yet it is always the direction we seem to go.

We need to become more local - But such a thing is difficult fighting frankinstien in Washington.

As uh..'rancid kitty' stated... every man has an idea of their 'utopia' that is created in their own head. and that utopia usually is relative to that specific person and their individual morals and beliefs, given this, and if you ever read thomas moores book, utopia is an impossible achievement.

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My last post was an answer to the original post. Looking at the dates, I see that is old news. So posting up to date with everyone else here.

I think the best government is our current government, unless you're outside the U.S.

The problem (according to a group of Unitarians) accured when corporations and big business were designated as entities, thereby, provided protections under the U.S. constitution. The problem with this is, they are the richest, largest, most powerful entities in the U.S., and don't we know it.

To fix this problem, we need to reverse this and designate them as a non entity, declaring that the constitution does not apply to big businesses and corporations. The original drafters of the constitution meant it to apply to people, living breathing flesh people who have feelings.

The problem with our government is simply 'It doesn't serve the people, to provide for all the people to meet their needs, which is not to say government wshould provide every need but to provide for those which are neccessary for the whole, not for the few [big money, etc.]